Institution for Creation Research

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Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:19 pm

Has anyone watched the video series from ICR called 'Unlocking the Mysteries of Genesis'? There are 12 different dvds ranging in topics that "explore scientific evidence that confirms the biblical account of creation". Fascinating stuff. I have not watched all of them yet. We watched 'Rise of Civilization' explaining how our current population today stemmed from Noah and his three sons (and wives of course). Also discussed the Tower of Babel and how God confusing the people into different languages explains how we have different ethnic groups today. And that God did this so that another flood-type event would not have to happen. It was also mentioned that the account of Genesis is found to be recorded in other ancient texts and languages such as Chinese, Greek and others.
Evolution was discussed and how even in evolution the idea of humans evolving from hominids involved intelligence and emotion.

I have some questions in my mind after watching the video, one of which is this:
In the assumption of evolution- If homo sapiens evolved from hominids, why are there no other animals that evolved over time?
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Jesus Raves » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:23 pm

Wise of you to place this in the Civility Lounge instead of General or Science.

I require some clarification to formulate an answer. Is your question basically another form of the age-old Creationist query "If humans evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:38 pm

That is a good question, but I was thinking more along the lines of why have other animals like birds, cats, coyotes, etc not evolved into more advanced life?
As humans, we have the ability to see past, present, future.
Animals see present (argueably the future if discussing an ant gathering for the winter).
Why have cats not evolved?
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:38 pm

Should I have put this in the Science area? Sorry about that. I can move it if needed....

I am but a young (37 is the new 27 right?) creationist learning the ropes of different thoughts on both creation and evolution. Gotta start somewhere....
Last edited by Stacie Cook on Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Rian » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:43 pm

Things don't HAVE to evolve. If they continue to fit well into their environment, then they won't change. If things shift and their current configuration doesn't work well, then they'll evolve or they will die out.

Now where people differ is how MUCH they think they would evolve (remember, evolve doesn't necessarily mean macrevolution)
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:53 pm

Rian wrote:Things don't HAVE to evolve. If they continue to fit well into their environment, then they won't change. If things shift and their current configuration doesn't work well, then they'll evolve or they will die out.

Now where people differ is how MUCH they think they would evolve (remember, evolve doesn't necessarily mean macrevolution)


Good point about not having to evolve. Now I am left wondering what happened that the necessity for evolving existed for hominids but not felines (for example) on a larger scale.
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Particles » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:07 pm

Rian wrote:Things don't HAVE to evolve. If they continue to fit well into their environment, then they won't change. If things shift and their current configuration doesn't work well, then they'll evolve or they will die out.

Now where people differ is how MUCH they think they would evolve (remember, evolve doesn't necessarily mean macrevolution)


Sure, it doesn't if there isn't enough time. But the over 3 billion years of the evolution of life is demonstrably sufficient for lots of macroevolution.
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Jesus Raves » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:23 pm

Stacie Cook wrote:Should I have put this in the Science area? Sorry about that. I can move it if needed....

That was not sarcasm. Had you placed this outside of the Civility Lounge--perhaps even in the Christian section--certain forum members would likely have mocked your lack of a basic understanding of evolution. As a former Creationist, I understand where you're coming from, as I was once as ignorant on the topic as you appear to be now. (No offense meant by calling you ignorant; each person is ignorant about something--most things, really, since so much potential knowledge waits to be discovered.)

I am but a young (37 is the new 27 right?) creationist learning the ropes of different thoughts on both creation and evolution. Gotta start somewhere....

37 is the new 8, if you aim to learn. Approach every subject with childlike open-mindedness and childlike curiosity but with fierce and reasoned skepticism, and you'll find yourself in a new world of understanding. I'm happy you want to learn, so please don't feel that I criticized you here or in my previous post.
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:27 pm

Not at all. I do not think you were criticizing. Thank you.
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Jesus Raves » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:37 pm

Now, about the actual point of the thread.
Stacie Cook wrote:That is a good question, but I was thinking more along the lines of why have other animals like birds, cats, coyotes, etc not evolved into more advanced life?
As humans, we have the ability to see past, present, future.
Animals see present (argueably the future if discussing an ant gathering for the winter).
Why have cats not evolved?

I strongly recommend--instead of finding the straight answer to your question and then stopping there--that you first acquire a basic understanding of evolution. Once that's over and done, you'll see why your question really doesn't make sense. (Again, no offense meant. I was in your place only a few years ago, in regards to understanding evolution.)

This podcast has been recommended elsewhere on the forum. I've listened to it, and as a complete novice, I think the podcaster, a molecular biologist, manages to explain the basics of evolution in simple language comprehensible to anyone willing to learn. Start from episode 1, by the way.
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:03 pm

Thank you. I am not necessarily looking for a straight answer, but curious to see what others think about it. I will check it out. Reading heavy stuff does not go well with my narcolepsy, so I love podcasts. Thanks again.
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Jesus Raves » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:04 pm

Thank you for being open to learning. I hope the podcast treats you well.
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby sayak » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:16 am

Stacie Cook wrote:That is a good question, but I was thinking more along the lines of why have other animals like birds, cats, coyotes, etc not evolved into more advanced life?
As humans, we have the ability to see past, present, future.
Animals see present (argueably the future if discussing an ant gathering for the winter).
Why have cats not evolved?


Brains are highly metabolically expensive (consumes nearly 1/3 rd of all energy you eat) . Not everybody needs a supercomputer to run their company do they? However several groups of mammalian species (and a few birds) have been getting brainier and brainier over the years. We simply moved ahead a bit.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6602-dolphins-big-brains-evolved-in-spurts/

They studied the fossilised skulls – dating back 47 million years – along with 144 modern specimens, and found each creature’s encephalisation quotient (EQ). This measurement relates a specimen’s brain mass to that of an average animal of similar size, so if an animal’s EQ is less than 1, it has a smaller than average brain, while if it is greater than 1, it has a relatively large one. Humans are the brainiest of all creatures, with an EQ of 7.


Dolphins’ earliest ancestors were land-based hoofed creatures that became aquatic, losing their hind legs and gaining flippers over time. About 35 million years ago, those flippered creatures were about the size of small baleen whales – about 9 metres long – had sharp teeth and an EQ of about 0.5.

But around that time, that group mysteriously died off, spawning a new group called the odontocetes, or toothed whales, which include today’s dolphins, porpoises, belugas and narwhals.

The new research shows these creatures were smaller, with smaller teeth, but – crucially – relatively bigger brains. Their EQs had jumped to 2.5 – a phenomenon Marino suspects is related to their development of echolocation – the use of sound waves to locate objects – and their complex social lives.



The research shows that about eight out of 67 odontocete species – including dolphins – went through a second boost in brainpower about 15 million years ago, attaining EQs of 4 and 5, although the reasons for this leap remain unclear. And some species’ brains also got smaller.


Only patchy – if any – historical brain size records exist for most animals, but researchers know that in the five million years of human history, EQs have risen from about 2.5 to 7.


As you can see. Its a matter of degree only. If we don't make the species extinct, probably in a few million years dolphins would get another spurt of brain size increase and develop their own aquatic civilization.
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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby spongebob » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:22 am

This definitely does NOT belong in the science section if the perspective you are coming from is creation "science". My first suggestion is to stop watching films produced by creationists because they are garbage and do not represent science. Just the fact that you are asking the question "why don't other animals evolve" demonstrates this. Evolution is not a predetermined path where all creatures have a goal of obtaining the ability to learn calculus. There is no such thing as "higher" evolution or "more advanced" evolution. Those are essentially meaningless words. There are things such as more or less complex organisms but that does not necessarily speak to it's evolutionary success. Many viruses are very simple in terms of its genome (compared to humans) but could be considered to be highly evolved in the sense that they dominate their niche of the environment and their strategy for survival is very robust.

The answer to your horrifically phrased question is that all organisms have experienced evolution. What you see today is the result of countless generations of organisms surviving, reproducing and dying under different environmental stresses that have shaped their forms and behaviors. There is no single recipe for survival; there are millions and all are equally legitimate. And if you think that mankind is the ultimate in evolutionary accomplishment then think again. Mankind has barely been on the earth long enough to make a dent while many other species have existed for millions of years before us. And if you believe that volume or numbers are what matters, think again, mankind isn't even close to the most populous or most voluminous creature on the planet. Mankind's only real claim to fame is that we've created pretty toys to play with. And by the way, all of our knowledge of evolution and species is limited to what we have found on earth, which may be nothing more than a fleck of dandruff compared to life throughout the universe.

And you need to understand that evolutionary theory is no assumption. It is a scientific theory that took over 150 years to develop into a robust explanation of the biological diversity that we see today. The fact that it was even mentioned in the same "film" with myths like the tower of Babel is just sad and disrespectful.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby sayak » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:22 am

By the way. We are huge problem for our furry neighbors and they are responding, by getting more intelligent. Its obviously requires a lot of brain power to 'tackle' humans, so the evolutionary arms race has begun!! :-D
http://news.discovery.com/animals/animals-humans-brain-size-environment-130823.htm

Now everyone wants a supercomputer in their heads. ;-)
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