Institution for Creation Research

Tired of wandering the lawless wilds of the AC&A forum? Have a friendly chat in our cozy, velvet-covered civility lounge. Alcohol not permitted, only the Kenny G button works on the jukebox. All undesirable types will be quietly escorted out the back door.

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Simplyme » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:50 pm

Stacie Cook wrote:Lots to think about. Thank you all so far for the information provided. I do appreciate it.


So Stacie...were the classes about alternate truth or how other religions are not real?
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
Simplyme
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 5953
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:11 am

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:27 pm

I did not attend them but from what I recall, it was a series for a certain amount of weeks like 6-8 I think. Each week a person (or persons) for a particular religion (Islam, Buddhist, Atheism, Taoism, etc) came in and shared an overview of their religion, any text they prescribed to, etc. If a certain text was involved, then the class members were to read portions of the text to get a general idea.
The idea was to get a better sense of other religions and viewpoints. Not classes as in 'which other religion do I want to be'...
If you want to meet God... then the cross is the place to which you go. - Alistair Begg
User avatar
Stacie Cook
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:14 am
Location: House of Cook, IN
Affiliation: Hypocritical Christian

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Rian » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:27 pm

Simplyme wrote:
Rian wrote:I think it would be a great idea to mention a good cross-section of these types of things and have the kids learn to analyze what is testable and what isn't. You know, teach them how to think and analyze, just like a scientist does. I hate when classes are merely "learn these facts". People should be taught how to THINK about things on their own, IMO. It's a useful life-skill.


I think churches should do this to. Teach other religious beliefs. Teach people how to think and analyze. I hate it when churches are merely "just read the bible and do not ask questions". People should be taught how to think about things on there own. IMO. Its a useful life-skill.
I totally agree! I would never go to a church that doesn't do this.
"Aurë entuluva! Auta i lómë!" ("Day shall come again! The night is passing!") -- from JRR Tolkien's The Silmarillion

Christianity is the red pill - go for it! Seek the truth, wherever it leads you.
User avatar
Rian
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 6204
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: Arizona, USA ... for now ...
Affiliation: Christian/truth-seeker

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby spongebob » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:46 am

Rian wrote: I think that idea should get at least a one-minute mention in schools, mainly because students could discuss and learn about what is scientifically testable and what is not, and that's a valuable thing to know.


That's fine with me because, as you pointed out, there's no evidence that this is the case. In fact, the preponderance of the evidence contradicts this idea, so you are correct, it would take about one minute to explain this idea then one could talk for days about the evidence that contradicts it. And that works for me because after days of explaining the evidence, it's much easier to put the pieces together in the way they actually fit, and that is the modern version of evolutionary theory.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

:spongeb:
User avatar
spongebob
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 5783
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:59 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Affiliation: Humanist - Bright

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby spongebob » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:57 am

Rian wrote:I think it would be a great idea to mention a good cross-section of these types of things and have the kids learn to analyze what is testable and what isn't. You know, teach them how to think and analyze, just like a scientist does. I hate when classes are merely "learn these facts". People should be taught how to THINK about things on their own, IMO. It's a useful life-skill.


Rian, I will acknowledge you this one point. Our school systems don't do a great job of teaching kids how to think critically so much as filling them with facts, figures and methods for solving certain types of math and science problems. That is a big deficit in our educational system. There are tons of people trying different ideas to get this right and in my opinion the results have been mixed at best. However, what you are proposing is NOT a solution to that. All you are proposing is that we throw into the mix more unproven and non-scientific concepts. You are basically just saying that none of this can be proved, so whatever you want to believe is OK. That's not true. There are things in this world than can be known and the scientific method is a genuine method for true discovery. Just because it doesn't support your creation belief does not mean it isn't valid. You are not even in agreement with other Christians who fully support evolutionary theory and by promoting these ideas, you are suggesting that science take a back seat in science class. That's not going to happen and it shouldn't. Science has a method and it works. Just because it doesn't produce the results you hope for doesn't mean it isn't working. There have been real scientists who have gone down this road before. They start out as scientists, but when their most hoped for theory doesn't pan out, sometimes they don't give up on it. They keep looking for ways to prove what they believe even when all the data says it isn't true. This is when they cross over from being a real scientist to a pseudo-scientist and that is a dark road. We do not want to encourage anyone to take this road. All of these ideas and beliefs you have about creationism have already been taken into account in evolutionary science. It's already been studied. There's nothing that you think you know that has not been considered. There is no conspiracy.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

:spongeb:
User avatar
spongebob
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 5783
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:59 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Affiliation: Humanist - Bright

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Simplyme » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:13 am

I think churches should do this to. Teach other religious beliefs. Teach people how to think and analyze. I hate it when churches are merely "just read the bible and do not ask questions". People should be taught how to think about things on there own. IMO. Its a useful life-skill.


I totally agree! I would never go to a church that doesn't do this.


Are you saying you attend a church that teaches other religious beliefs and non-beliefs as an alternate and possible view?
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
Simplyme
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 5953
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:11 am

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby spongebob » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:55 am

I'd like to know what Christian churches are actively teaching other religious views, even in an historical sense. I've never seen this before and it wouldn't be a constructive thing to do for any of the churches I've attended, given their current aspirations. I was a member of Baptist and Methodist churches and I attended Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal and Unitarian churches. Of all of those, only the Unitarian was open to the possibility that other religious beliefs were valid. Every other church I've been to was not, even the most progressive of those churches. So in the sense of tolerance, maybe there's reason to do this, but if the church's core tenet is that there is one god and that god is the one they describe, then I don't see how they could teach other religious views in any capacity other than just being respectful of others views.

No church I've ever been to promoted any sort of critical thinking. The level of top-down preaching varied depending on the church and some of them were quite dogmatic, but essentially all of them (Unitarian excluded) promoted the standard ideas of Christianity and there was no sort of critical thinking or open ideas even considered.

Here's one story as an example. About 20 years ago, I was a member of a Methodist Church and the lesson being discussed was the story of Jesus feeding the masses. The pastor discussed the scripture and asked the audience how Jesus performed this miracle. The entire lesson was centered on how it was done and perhaps why this miracle was performed and what it meant to the people how it promoted Jesus as a divine man. Not one word was spoken about this being allegory or metaphor or any likelihood that the story was exaggerated in some sense, even if to make a point or promote the ideals of Jesus. There was just no opening for considering this scripture as anything but actual truth, a miracle, magic. And that was at a Methodist Church, not exactly a fundamentalist stronghold. So the very idea of churches teaching critical thinking and exploring the faiths of other religions just sounds alien to me. I've never seen it happen before.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

:spongeb:
User avatar
spongebob
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 5783
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:59 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Affiliation: Humanist - Bright

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Simplyme » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:23 am

I'm still waiting for one legit example of a church that teaches other religious beliefs and non-beliefs as an alternate and possible view?

Is this yet another claim that will never be confirmed?
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
Simplyme
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 5953
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:11 am

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:53 am

..... Like sands through the hour-glass, so are the days of our lives.....
If you want to meet God... then the cross is the place to which you go. - Alistair Begg
User avatar
Stacie Cook
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:14 am
Location: House of Cook, IN
Affiliation: Hypocritical Christian

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Simplyme » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:29 pm

For those that seek it, will find it under what's above the mountains and above the sky....
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
Simplyme
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 5953
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:11 am

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:36 pm

SpongeBob- Typically, from what I have seen each church has a 'mission statement' stating certain beliefs.
Anything taught in the church falls under these beliefs.
If you want to meet God... then the cross is the place to which you go. - Alistair Begg
User avatar
Stacie Cook
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:14 am
Location: House of Cook, IN
Affiliation: Hypocritical Christian

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Simplyme » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:49 pm

Stacie Cook wrote:SpongeBob- Typically, from what I have seen each church has a 'mission statement' stating certain beliefs.
Anything taught in the church falls under these beliefs.


This seems to contradict your other post.
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
Simplyme
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 5953
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:11 am

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:33 pm

Stacie Cook wrote:I did not attend them but from what I recall, it was a series for a certain amount of weeks like 6-8 I think. Each week a person (or persons) for a particular religion (Islam, Buddhist, Atheism, Taoism, etc) came in and shared an overview of their religion, any text they prescribed to, etc. If a certain text was involved, then the class members were to read portions of the text to get a general idea.
The idea was to get a better sense of other religions and viewpoints. Not classes as in 'which other religion do I want to be'...


Simplyme, yes you are right. That does seem contradictory.

The classs I was refering to were on tuesday nights I think, I did not go as I was working. Again, they were meant to help church attenders to understand and get a better idea of what other religions believe, ascribe to, etc. The classes were meant to be more so educational, not so much as a catalog of religions to choose to join.

As far as a sermon or sunday school class goes, if the mission of that church is clearly stated (as I have seen on weekly bulletins, wall plaque type hangings, etc) then the assumptions are already stated. Why would there be a need to discuss a scripture passage as something that may not be true? The mission statement would likely have included something like, "We believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God."
If you are speaking of the story in the sense that parts of the Bible are considered history, some parables, some like Revelation that have metaphors, etc, then yes, I would wonder why nothing was discussed in this sense.

As far as critical thinking goes- All the churches I have ever attended were and are considered biblical-based. So in the sense of critical thinking of the idea that the bible isnt't true, no that didn't really happen. For the most part the attenders are already on the same page of thinking the bible is infallible and the word of God. But... quite often from pastors and preachers we are reminded to not just take the pastor's word for what is being preached. We must seek truth for ourselves. No one but ourself will be held accountable for what we believe. (I am speaking in the context of in church, hearing a sermon).
Last edited by Stacie Cook on Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
If you want to meet God... then the cross is the place to which you go. - Alistair Begg
User avatar
Stacie Cook
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:14 am
Location: House of Cook, IN
Affiliation: Hypocritical Christian

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby Stacie Cook » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:40 pm

Simplyme wrote:For those that seek it, will find it under what's above the mountains and above the sky....



Stratosphere or Troposhere? Lol
If you want to meet God... then the cross is the place to which you go. - Alistair Begg
User avatar
Stacie Cook
Senior member
Senior member
 
Posts: 1251
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:14 am
Location: House of Cook, IN
Affiliation: Hypocritical Christian

Re: Institution for Creation Research

Postby CL Moderator » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:05 am

*** Moderator Warning ***

This is a reminder that we do not allow baiting in the CL. For example:

Simplyme wrote:I'm still waiting for one legit example of a church that teaches other religious beliefs and non-beliefs as an alternate and possible view?

Is this yet another claim that will never be confirmed?


Continued violations will result in further moderator action. As always, feel free to revisit the forum rules, and if you have any questions contact rian or tirtlegrrl via PM. Thank you!
User avatar
CL Moderator
recruit
recruit
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:55 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Civility Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron