God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby mitchellmckain » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:16 am

Stacie Cook wrote:As a mother of four young children, I have to say that necessity has definitely been the mother of many of my inventions in the last 5yrs...


inventions? Really? Like what?

I do not say that necessity is not the motivation for many actions or even that people never employ creativity in the response to crisis situations. What I deny that necessity is a requirement for invention or even the most important reason why people get creative to do things which have never been done before.

P.S. I hope you have followed the whole discussion so you know the context of this particular issue.
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby Stacie Cook » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:22 am

I have 5 1/2yr old quadruplets.
There aren't a whole lots of things that are made for life with quads. You have to get creative real fast. Try feeding four babies at one time. I came up with ways to make bottle props. I made bottle holders/dryers out of stuff around the house to hold all the bottles after being washed. I created all kinds of temporary gates until we could find the proper ones we wanted to buy. I've used more rope, glue, fasteners, locks, fabric glue, etc in the last five years than I have my whole life. Lol.

Yes, I am following along. I see what you are saying in context of the discussion...
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby Simplyme » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:40 am

Stacie Cook wrote:I have 5 1/2yr old quadruplets.
There aren't a whole lots of things that are made for life with quads. You have to get creative real fast. Try feeding four babies at one time. I came up with ways to make bottle props. I made bottle holders/dryers out of stuff around the house to hold all the bottles after being washed. I created all kinds of temporary gates until we could find the proper ones we wanted to buy. I've used more rope, glue, fasteners, locks, fabric glue, etc in the last five years than I have my whole life. Lol.

Yes, I am following along. I see what you are saying in context of the discussion...


5 1/2yr old quads???? I envy you now..... :-)
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby sayak » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:29 am

Stacie Cook wrote:I have 5 1/2yr old quadruplets.
There aren't a whole lots of things that are made for life with quads. You have to get creative real fast. Try feeding four babies at one time. I came up with ways to make bottle props. I made bottle holders/dryers out of stuff around the house to hold all the bottles after being washed. I created all kinds of temporary gates until we could find the proper ones we wanted to buy. I've used more rope, glue, fasteners, locks, fabric glue, etc in the last five years than I have my whole life. Lol.

Yes, I am following along. I see what you are saying in context of the discussion...


If it were upto me the fireworks would have been for mother's day and not for the 4th of July. You have my admiration Stacie. Modern social ethics seems very hostile to families and moms, I sometimes feel that this weakness and not nuclear weapons or global warming, may cause modernity to falter and Mitchel's boat to sink.
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby Stacie Cook » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:03 pm

Simplyme wrote:
Stacie Cook wrote:I have 5 1/2yr old quadruplets.
There aren't a whole lots of things that are made for life with quads. You have to get creative real fast. Try feeding four babies at one time. I came up with ways to make bottle props. I made bottle holders/dryers out of stuff around the house to hold all the bottles after being washed. I created all kinds of temporary gates until we could find the proper ones we wanted to buy. I've used more rope, glue, fasteners, locks, fabric glue, etc in the last five years than I have my whole life. Lol.

Yes, I am following along. I see what you are saying in context of the discussion...


5 1/2yr old quads???? I envy you now..... :-)


Aww, thanks. Being a mom is hard work no matter how many kids we have...
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby Stacie Cook » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:04 pm

sayak wrote:
Stacie Cook wrote:I have 5 1/2yr old quadruplets.
There aren't a whole lots of things that are made for life with quads. You have to get creative real fast. Try feeding four babies at one time. I came up with ways to make bottle props. I made bottle holders/dryers out of stuff around the house to hold all the bottles after being washed. I created all kinds of temporary gates until we could find the proper ones we wanted to buy. I've used more rope, glue, fasteners, locks, fabric glue, etc in the last five years than I have my whole life. Lol.

Yes, I am following along. I see what you are saying in context of the discussion...


If it were upto me the fireworks would have been for mother's day and not for the 4th of July. You have my admiration Stacie. Modern social ethics seems very hostile to families and moms, I sometimes feel that this weakness and not nuclear weapons or global warming, may cause modernity to falter and Mitchel's boat to sink.


Thanks. The reason there are no fireworks on Mother's Day is because it is noisy. If noisy fireworks wake up a sleeping baby, momma turns back into a she-devil :) Ain't nobody got time fo dat.
If you want to meet God... then the cross is the place to which you go. - Alistair Begg
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby sayak » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:11 pm

:-D :-D :-D :-D
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby Simplyme » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:16 pm

Aww, thanks. Being a mom is hard work no matter how many kids we have...


I raised my son by myself. I honestly can say it was the most fun I have ever had in my whole life. I do not know where I would be without him. If it were up to me I would have hundreds...... :-)
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby Rian » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:35 pm

Stacie Cook wrote:I have 5 1/2yr old quadruplets.
There aren't a whole lots of things that are made for life with quads. You have to get creative real fast. Try feeding four babies at one time. I came up with ways to make bottle props. I made bottle holders/dryers out of stuff around the house to hold all the bottles after being washed. I created all kinds of temporary gates until we could find the proper ones we wanted to buy. I've used more rope, glue, fasteners, locks, fabric glue, etc in the last five years than I have my whole life. Lol.


Image

WOW! You are amazing!!!


I must say that we've had to be pretty creative at times too to deal with our son with no legs - things aren't meant for kids like that! I need to figure out how to upload a picture of him riding his quad ...
"Aurë entuluva! Auta i lómë!" ("Day shall come again! The night is passing!") -- from JRR Tolkien's The Silmarillion

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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby Stacie Cook » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:46 pm

Simplyme wrote:
Aww, thanks. Being a mom is hard work no matter how many kids we have...


I raised my son by myself. I honestly can say it was the most fun I have ever had in my whole life. I do not know where I would be without him. If it were up to me I would have hundreds...... :-)



Amazing. I cannot imagine trying to do this all by myself. Kudos to you!
If you want to meet God... then the cross is the place to which you go. - Alistair Begg
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby Stacie Cook » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:48 pm

Rian wrote:
I must say that we've had to be pretty creative at times too to deal with our son with no legs - things aren't meant for kids like that! I need to figure out how to upload a picture of him riding his quad ...



See.... The necessity of invention. Isn't that people invent stuff. Cause there is a need and something doesn't already exist to do the job :)

I'd say you are equally as amazing.
If you want to meet God... then the cross is the place to which you go. - Alistair Begg
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby sayak » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:06 pm

Now I am curious about what the enterprising moms and pops in the forum think about something.

Is it your view that the experience of the time you spent in caring and loving your children requires an overarching goal and purpose for all of humanity in order to have meaning? Or do you consider that period of your life to encapsulated within itself a meaning, a satisfaction and an internal joy-giving purpose of its own regardless of what the future holds?

The first question was about future destiny. The second question is past provenance.

Again consider the same experience of rearing your children. Do you think its value in your life is increased or decreased depending on which of the following is true
1) Our capacity to love and care was programmed into God in one fell swoop 6000 years ago when God designed our ancestors?
2) Our capacity to love and care is part of a long but God-shepherded process of evolutionary self-organization.
3) Our capacity to love and care us part of a long but purely naturalistic heritage coming from those organisms that evolved to care for their young in order to flourish in a hostile world.


I am asking these because I remain skeptical about how much do any of these philosophical points of past heritage or future destiny matter in making the lives that we actually lead meaningful.
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby Stacie Cook » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:41 pm

Jerry Seinfeld on getting married and having kids: **insert Seinfeld voice** These are just things to do to fill the time before you die.....
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby mitchellmckain » Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:21 pm

sayak wrote:Now I am curious about what the enterprising moms and pops in the forum think about something.

Is it your view that the experience of the time you spent in caring and loving your children requires an overarching goal and purpose for all of humanity in order to have meaning? Or do you consider that period of your life to encapsulated within itself a meaning, a satisfaction and an internal joy-giving purpose of its own regardless of what the future holds?

Yes it is part of the overarching goal of helping them to grow up. I hear so many say "It is a shame they have to grow up." I could NEVER understand this -- it seems twisted and wrong to me. That they grow up is the whole point.
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Re: God as a Watchmaker or a Shepherd

Postby Simplyme » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:50 am

mitchellmckain wrote:
sayak wrote:Now I am curious about what the enterprising moms and pops in the forum think about something.

Is it your view that the experience of the time you spent in caring and loving your children requires an overarching goal and purpose for all of humanity in order to have meaning? Or do you consider that period of your life to encapsulated within itself a meaning, a satisfaction and an internal joy-giving purpose of its own regardless of what the future holds?

Yes it is part of the overarching goal of helping them to grow up. I hear so many say "It is a shame they have to grow up." I could NEVER understand this -- it seems twisted and wrong to me. That they grow up is the whole point.


It is a shame, because we lose them a little when they are grown. They no longer rely on us. Yes, that is the goal, but this does not mean that it is not hard on us, as parents, to see them go. Not sure how this is twisted or wrong.

We all die, we all know that we will die, but yet we are sad when a love one dies, because we will not see this person ever again. It is a shame that they have to die. There is nothing wrong or twisted with stating, "it is a shame that we have to die".
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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