Would Jesus speak out against homosexuality today?

[Carico]

Sorry but since you reject Christ's love, then you have defeated your own argument.

But that's what happens when you quote a book to don't believe; you defeat your whole point. So your arguments are so contradictory, they're NWR. If your arguments are an example of the "reasoning" of atheists, you don't have a chance of disproving the bible. Unbelievable.

[Penguin]

Sorry but since you reject Christ's love, then you have defeated your own argument.

But that's what happens when you quote a book to don't believe; you defeat your whole point.

Actually, since my point only dealt with the internal consistency of the claims you were making relative to the Bible and not the external consistency of whether the Bible is factually correct, my point's very much intact.

If the Bible is wrong, your position has no foundation. If the Bible is correct, then because your position goes against the Bible, it still has no foundation.

So your arguments are so contradictory, they're NWR.

NWR?

:roll: If your arguments are an example of the "reasoning" of atheists, you don't have a chance of disproving the bible. Unbelievable.

I'm not trying to disprove the Bible; I'm just showing that your position is hypocritical and incorrect, regardless of what anyone believes about the truth of the Bible.

[tirtlegrrl]

So despite Jesus' claim that the Kingdom of heaven belongs to little children who come to him, you would have us believe that a little child could trust in Jesus to save her and yet NOT BE SAVED. What kind of a God would lie to a child???

[crazylegsmurphy]

Aaron,

please send me $10,000. Trust me it will be in your best interest. I have helped many people that have sent me this amount of cash and I promise you that you will be set for life.

I can give you testimonials from a few people on this website that can varify this is true if needed.

I realize this sounds really iffy but, I can tell you that you'll be really a lot worse off if you don't.

[Carico]

So despite Jesus' claim that the Kingdom of heaven belongs to little children who come to him, you would have us believe that a little child could trust in Jesus to save her and yet NOT BE SAVED. What kind of a God would lie to a child???

Again, you never did understand Christ's words so you only paid him lip service. Jesus said to come to him LIKE a child, not as a child. I already explained what that means, with humility, and open minds. That means to humble ourselves and have the capacity to admit that we need a redeemer. But many children to not come to Jesus because their parents are leading them straight on the path to hell and most adults deceive themselves in thinking they know better than Jesus does. so as Jesus tells us FEW will find the narrow road.

[ScottBarger]

So despite Jesus' claim that the Kingdom of heaven belongs to little children who come to him, you would have us believe that a little child could trust in Jesus to save her and yet NOT BE SAVED. What kind of a God would lie to a child???

Again, you never did understand Christ's words so you only paid him lip service. Jesus said to come to him LIKE a child, not as a child. I already explained what that means, with humility, and open minds. That means to humble ourselves and have the capacity to admit that we need a redeemer. But many children to not come to Jesus because their parents are leading them straight on the path to hell and most adults deceive themselves in thinking they know better than Jesus does. so as Jesus tells us FEW will find the narrow road.

Don't the words "like" and "as" essentially mean the same thing in this context?

[tirtlegrrl]

Excuse me, I did understand "accept Jesus and go to Heaven", which according to you is all one needs to do...you know, thank the arsonist who saved you from the fire? My parents are "born again" Christians as well and have continued in the faith, so you can't argue that they were leading me astray to hell or teaching me wrong things.

If you want to argue that parents can lead children into incorrect beliefs that can lead them to hell, doesn't that give parents (who are imperfect) more power than God? Do you think God would tell a kid at the Pearly Gates who THOUGHT she was saved, "sorry, your parents taught you the wrong things...go burn now!" How is that admirable?

Here's what happened:

I understood "Jesus loves me"
I understood "I've done bad things, and people who do bad things can't go to Heaven"
I understood "Jesus died to pay the penalty for the bad things I've done"
I understood "If I ask Jesus to forgive me, come into my heart, etc., and promise to follow him, I can go to Heaven"

I did so. How did I not come either LIKE a child or AS a child (and how do you know what that means, since Jesus didn't specify) since I WAS a child?

What was incorrect about this, in your opinion (Carico)?

[Penguin]

Don't the words "like" and "as" essentially mean the same thing in this context?

I think the meanings are different, but I don't see why a literal child couldn't come to Jesus like a child.

[Aaron]

promise to follow him

I have a problem with this. I don't believe that Jesus' gift of grace is contingent upon our promise to follow him. I hope this doesn't seem like I am attacking you. I just saw it and felt as though I should say something...

[tirtlegrrl]

Are you kidding? An "attack" from anyone besides Carico would be more like a hug.

Ok, even if "promise to follow him" is not strictly necessary, it doesn't negate the other stuff. I just remember it being part of the salvation pitch. Thanks for your input!

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the right way to describe salvation to a six-year old?

[Aaron]

Ok, even if "promise to follow him" is not strictly necessary, it doesn't negate the other stuff. I just remember it being part of the salvation pitch. Thanks for your input!

You're welcome . I guess what you said raised a big red flag for me, salvation is a very tricky thing for us humans. We want so badly to give God all the help he needs, but in fact we have aboslutely nothing to offer. I dunno for me its got to be all Jesus or it turns sour fast, trust me been there done that.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the right way to describe salvation to a six-year old?

Tell it to them like it is. We have sinned. God is perfect. We are in need of a fix that only God can provide. So we must give it all to Him, admit our sin and ask for his saving grace to be given to us. We can do nothing to save ourselves, only the righteousness given by God is good enough for God. I think its wonderful. Its so amazing and so simple, yet so hard to admit we need God.

[whoosanightowl]

Does that make sense, and if so, could that possibly have been what led you through your doubts?

It's a possibility. But I could also be right; do you also admit that Christianity is a possibility (I’m sure you do)? There are many people that could be right, but I believe with all my heart that I am. I think you have hit on something very central to the Christian and Jewish faith. I don’t think its any accident that these kinds of truths cannot be known with absolute certainty. After all without faith it is impossible to please God. I think that God has created the world like this on purpose. I think he wants us to trust in Him; I think He wants us to believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him. I think this life is the way it is for a very specific purpose.

So if all the worlds religions were lined up side by side, and one of the main requirements of each is "faith" in their particular deity and doctrines (since none have absolute proof of holding the truth), wouldn't it be just as easy for someone who had never been formerly indoctrinated into any religion, to learn about each and believe in any one of them equally?
Doesn't that sort of explain why children of Jewish parents usually are Jewish, children of Muslim parents are usually Muslim, children of Christian parents are usually Christian, children of Buddhist parents are usually Buddhist and children of Hindu parents are usually Hindu? Even after they grow up, most remain whatever it was that their early indoctrination taught them was the truth. Presenting people with new God(s) usually does not work because they all see evidence of their own deity through their personal life experiences. Whatever they were taught to see and how they were taught to interpret things is likely to stay with them their entire lives and they will not likely change their minds.
I say usually because it does happen occasionally, myself for one example. No I honestly can't admit that I believe Christianity or any other Abrahamian religion is a possibility, but I can admit "God" is a possibility. Sorry, but I was a Christian for nearly 50 years and when I lost my faith, it was gone. I did earnestly seek "him", but he never showed himself to me. If he wants blind faith, I just don't have it to give. I need some sort of evidence, just as I would for any other supernatural, miraculous claim.
But I am not asking you to admit to the possibility of the existence of another religions deity, only whether yours may not exist.

[whoosanightowl]

Carico wrote:

Jesus tells us FEW will find the narrow road.

Yet you're so absolutely certain you found it! What's it like to be so annoyingly sure of oneself that you can condemn so many others to hell without batting an eye? Especially since you have no more evidence that the road you're on is any more right than any other one. Whether you like it or not, your chances are no better than anyone else's regardless of what you believe is true. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[whoosanightowl]

Aaron wrote:

Its so amazing and so simple, yet so hard to admit we need God.

Aaron,
How can we admit to needing something that we don't even know exists? If I feel guilty about something I did, I might recognize that I need to apologize to whoever it may have adversely affected and ask for forgiveness. That's because I am well aware of these other people's existence.
But if I carelessly stomp through the garden, I'm not going to assume there are invisible pixies living among the flowers that I need to apologize to for squashing them.

[Huston]

How can we admit to needing something that we don't even know exists?

I think in this case the we should be substituted with I. You're presuming your own reality and experiences upon Aaron.