If Christians Know...

[humanguy]

Exrev asked a good question in another thread:

Why is someone who claims that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and that God of the Jew is the one true god really care about the philosophy of ultimate truth when in fact they already claim absolute knowledge of God and Jesus Christ?

Yes, why? Why would someone who knows that Christ rose from the dead to remove their sins and that the god of the Jews is the one true God care about other philosophies, other people's beliefs or lack of them? If you know that something is true then you know it, obviously, and so quite naturally you would dismiss that which you know is not true.

Why would a Christian care what science or philosophy say? Why would he care about politics or how much money he has or what anyone else anywhere is doing or thinking? He's got it made. He knows the system and he's living it.

If I knew, I mean really knew, knew just as sure as I know that I'm sitting here typing this, if I knew precisely what life was about and I knew that it was all going to turn out amazingly great then I'd be in a constant state of ecstasy, I would think.

The point is this: if everything in the Bible is true then Christians have it made. They're there! They've arrived, they've made it, baby!

When I was a smoker I knew that smoking was bad for me. I felt lousy, I had a hard time breathing and I coughed and I'd have to go out on the street to smoke and I smelled bad and I felt guilty and stupid. I looked at people who didn't smoke as having it made. Now that I no longer smoke I have absolutely no concern about anything that is related to the smoking of tobacco. I know that not smoking feels amazingly great and so my interest is to leave smoking as far behind me as possible. I don't think about, don't care about it. I've made it, baby!

Why do Christians who know what life and the universe are all about care what the non-Christian portion of humanity thinks or cares about when they know that we're all absolutely wrong and they're all absolutely right?

[Exrev]

Very nice Human Guy

[Keep The Reason]

Why do Christians who know what life and the universe are all about care what the non-Christian portion of humanity thinks or cares about when they know that we're all absolutely wrong and they're all absolutely right?

Well, unfortunately HG, Christians are tasked to "spread the gospel" and save every soul they can (of course, if ignorance of the message = a free pass into heaven, they're actually condemning people to Hell by presenting them with a choice they need not have made if it weren't for them).

This is supposedly done under the umbrella of "love for their fellow man" in that they don't want anyone to roast in Hell. Which supports the notion that Christians believe in the torment and cruelty type of Hell a hell of a lot more than they are admitting.

[humanguy]

Why do Christians who know what life and the universe are all about care what the non-Christian portion of humanity thinks or cares about when they know that we're all absolutely wrong and they're all absolutely right?

Well, unfortunately HG, Christians are tasked to "spread the gospel" and save every soul they can (of course, if ignorance of the message = a free pass into heaven, they're actually condemning people to Hell by presenting them with a choice they need not have made if it weren't for them).

This is supposedly done under the umbrella of "love for their fellow man" in that they don't want anyone to roast in Hell. Which supports the notion that Christians believe in the torment and cruelty type of Hell a hell of a lot more than they are admitting.

Fair enough KTR but let's not begin by projecting a cynical take on the topic at issue where the Christians are concerned before any Christian has made a comment. That isn't fair. The question, I think, is fair, and I do ask it in all sincerity.

[mitchellmckain]

Why is someone who claims that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and that God of the Jew is the one true god really care about the philosophy of ultimate truth when in fact they already claim absolute knowledge of God and Jesus Christ?

I do not understand. Why would knowing one truth mean that one is not interested in other truths?

I do not undestand what "absolute knowledge" means either.

Why would someone who knows that Christ rose from the dead to remove their sins and that the god of the Jews is the one true God care about other philosophies

I do not understand why one would preclude the other. Again why would one thing being true means that other truths are of no value?

If you know that something is true then you know it, obviously, and so quite naturally you would dismiss that which you know is not true.

Correct. But why would a knowledge of truth in Christianity cause one to preclude the truth of other things?

Why would a Christian care what science or philosophy say?

Why would anyone care what anyone or anything says, except that they can see some truth in the things that are said.

Why would he care about politics or how much money he has or what anyone else anywhere is doing or thinking?

Well my care for politics and money is pretty minimal but I don't really see the connection. Politics, money, science, and philosophy are concerned about different things. Life has many facets to it. I most certainly would not be interested in Christianity or any other philosophy that reduced life to a single truth and concern.

He's got it made. He knows the system and he's living it.

Huh? I don't believe that Christians "have it made" anymore than anyone else. I certainly do not believe in any Christianity that has been made into a system. That is legalism and I have no interest in that.

If I knew, I mean really knew, knew just as sure as I know that I'm sitting here typing this, if I knew precisely what life was about and I knew that it was all going to turn out amazingly great then I'd be in a constant state of ecstasy, I would think.

Really? That sounds pretty bizarre to me. Maybe there are Christians like that, but I am not one of them. Life IS amazingly great. Seems to me that if you know what life is about then you would get on with living and I don't think a state of ecstacy is it. That sounds like a trip on drugs. Life is growth, learning, challenges, love, and service. It has highs and lows because these are the results of success and failure. The failures are essential because that is how we learn, and the sucesses simply prepare you for the next challenge.

The point is this: if everything in the Bible is true then Christians have it made. They're there! They've arrived, they've made it, baby!

That is your interpretation of the Bible? More than anything else, what I see in the Bible is criticism and condemnation of the religious people. I don't see that they have it made at all. That is just a bunch of baloney.

I think that the theories of relativity, quantum physics, and evolution are correct and true. They all provide great tools for understanding large sets of data. In that respect those who have mastered these theories have it made when it comes to figuring out certain things. No big deal there. So why the big deal when it comes to finding truth in Christianity?

When I was a smoker I knew that smoking was bad for me. I felt lousy, I had a hard time breathing and I coughed and I'd have to go out on the street to smoke and I smelled bad and I felt guilty and stupid. I looked at people who didn't smoke as having it made. Now that I no longer smoke I have absolutely no concern about anything that is related to the smoking of tobacco. I know that not smoking feels amazingly great and so my interest is to leave smoking as far behind me as possible. I don't think about, don't care about it. I've made it, baby!

Right.... And so you have no other challenges in life?

Why do Christians who know what life and the universe are all about care what the non-Christian portion of humanity thinks or cares about when they know that we're all absolutely wrong and they're all absolutely right?

The only people I am quite sure are absolutely wrong are those who think that they are absolutely right.

[humanguy]

If you know that something is true then you know it, obviously, and so quite naturally you would dismiss that which you know is not true.

Correct. But why would a knowledge of truth in Christianity cause one to preclude the truth of other things?

Mitch, I'm not going to address everything you said because you know that I'm not talking about you. You're worlds apart from the kind of Christian I'm talking about here and you know that, and you know that I know that.

But I'll chase after this one: "Why would a knowledge of truth in Christianity cause one to preclude the truth of other things?"

If the truth in Christianity is really true then how can there be any truth of other things? How many truths can there be?

[Exrev]

I do not understand. Why would knowing one truth mean that one is not interested in other truths?

This is not directed at all Christians mostly to the fundies. And specific to the person that I was debating about ultimate truth.

I do not undestand what "absolute knowledge" means either.

This is not directed at all Christians mostly to the fundies. And specific to the person that I was debating.

"absolute knowledge"= absolute truth...like when my mother says that she knows that she knows Jesus rose from the grave.

Christians say they are absolutely right about God and that Jesus is THE savior- not just their savior, but everyone needs to believe in Jesus. If don't believe you'll be absolutely burning in hell.

[humanguy]

Hi ExRev.

I'm sorry but I've got to ask you: is English a second language for you?

[Exrev]

Hi ExRev.

I'm sorry but I've got to ask you: is English a second language for you?

WTF HG; why the insult?

[humanguy]

Hi ExRev.

I'm sorry but I've got to ask you: is English a second language for you?

WTF HG; why the insult?

I apologize, I absolutely did not mean to insult you and I don't like it that I did. It was a genuine question.

You write like someone for whom English is a second language.

"that they are absolutely right about God and that Jesus is the savior not just their savior but everyone needs to believe in Jesus."

Hard to make out what precisely that means, although the general meaning is clear enough. But if that's how you write then okay, brother. Please accept my apology.

[Exrev]

Hi ExRev.

I'm sorry but I've got to ask you: is English a second language for you?

WTF HG; why the insult?

I apologize, I absolutely did not mean to insult you and I don't like it that I did. It was a genuine question.

You write like someone for whom English is a second language.

"that they are absolutely right about God and that Jesus is the savior not just their savior but everyone needs to believe in Jesus."

Hard to make out what precisely that means, although the general meaning is clear enough. But if that's how you write then okay, brother. Please accept my apology.

Ah yes it is awful
I'll fix it. See the problem is that I know what I mean to write so my brain fills it in...ugh I am a bad editor and I type so fast that my brain doesn't think about what its doing.

[humanguy]

I type so fast that my brain doesn't think about what its doing.

If your brain doesn't think about what it's doing then why should anyone give a damn about what it is you're trying to say?

Presentation is important. You discredit yourself when you put incoherent slop up. Write well, as well as you can, all it takes is setting a standard for yourself and sticking to it. It's the only way to get better at something.

You read books don't you? You read newspapers and magazines, right? Well there you go. That's the standard to shoot for.

And if this thread is going to be about writing posts well then that's fine with me. I don't see why we should be excused for writing poorly just because we're doing it on the internet.

[Exrev]

I type so fast that my brain doesn't think about what its doing.

If your brain doesn't think about what it's doing then why should anyone give a damn about what it is you're trying to say?

Presentation is important. You discredit yourself when you put incoherent slop up. Write well, as well as you can, all it takes is setting a standard for yourself and sticking to it. It's the only way to get better at something.

If this thread is going to be about writing posts well then that's fine with me. I don't see why we should be excused for writing poorly just because we're doing it on the internet.

I guess I'll go to writers hell.

[WorldlingWatcher]

This is not directed at all Christians mostly to the fundies. And specific to the person that I was debating.

Well, I hate to disappoint, but I basically agree with Mitch's comments and questions on truth and the pursuit of it. All truths must be compatible with one another, so when one is faced with two beliefs which are incompatible, one must either find a coping tool to get comfortable with cognitive dissonance or find out where the falsehoods are lurking. Philosophy, science, logic, etc..., are all valid tools, but in my view no one will suffice to do the whole job in every circumstance. The point of my line of questioning in that "other thread" was not about what "ultimate truth" (whatever that means) looks like, but what are valid approaches towards defining and understanding truth, what "evidence" is relevant and material, and the underlying whys (mostly because it seemed some were arguing the scientific method of materialistic naturalism is the only tool required).

At this point I'll echo Mitch's request for a definition of what we're going to use as a definition of "absolute truth" for this discussion.

[Exrev]

This is not directed at all Christians mostly to the fundies. And specific to the person that I was debating.

At this point I'll echo Mitch's request for a definition of what we're going to use as a definition of "absolute truth" for this discussion.

I don't know, you tell me you're the one who claims to have it.