RELIGION VS SCIENCE - the wrong discussion!

[Moonwood the Hare]

This just reminds me of a Peanuts strip where Lucy tells Linus how lucky he is to have her to point out all his faults to him.

Who's this comment made to? Rian has been very consistent in pointing out my faults, as has mitchellmckain when he untroll-ignores me briefly to tell everyone how he has me troll-ignored.

It's not made to anyone, just tossed in like a hand grenade in a bucket of ferrets.

[Rian]

What's the difference where you said them? They reflect your opinion whether they're here, in a different thread, in the post office or in your car. I do you the respect to presume you maintain a consistent opinion despite where you might be stating it.

My objection is that they don't go together, and I was showing how much they don't go together by pointing out that they're from different posts and even different threads.

The accepted way of quoting sentences one after another that are actually NOT one after another is to put in ellipses. Would you either put in ellipses, or put in something before the quotes saying that it's a selection of quotes from me from different posts and threads? We've been sniping at each other for a bit, and i"m ready to stop now because my guess is that you won't agree that the "so-and-so is refusing to answer me!" is a cheap tactic, especially when one of the so-and-so's has been answering at great length. But I'm hoping that you're willing to be accurate, even with someone that you've been sniping with.

[Rian]

This just reminds me of a Peanuts strip where Lucy tells Linus how lucky he is to have her to point out all his faults to him.

Who's this comment made to? Rian has been very consistent in pointing out my faults, as has mitchellmckain when he untroll-ignores me briefly to tell everyone how he has me troll-ignored.

Oh come now, and you haven't been pointing out my faults even more?

But as I just said, I'm going to stop now. I had really hoped that you would acknowledge the "refusing to answer" thing was a cheap shot, and I got into a morbid curiosity mood to see how long you would go without admitting it. But I guess you aren't going to admit it, and I'm sure it's getting irritating to others, so I'm going to stop now.

(but seriously, seriously, you can't admit it's a cheap shot?, and that maybe you were wrong to have said it, especially to Moonwood? An answer not looking like what you want it to look like is NOT refusing to answer.)

[Keep The Reason]

(but seriously, seriously, you can't admit it's a cheap shot?, and that maybe you were wrong to have said it, especially to Moonwood? An answer not looking like what you want it to look like is NOT refusing to answer.)

No I don't consider it a "cheap shot" to assess you weren't going to answer it. I'm not lying to you or trying to one-up you -- it was my honest appraisal, nothing more. And since you still haven't answered it -- I'm going to hold to it. I'm not saying that in any negative way, and when I said "fair enough?" I meant it as "fair enough". As long as you don't answer it, I'll consider it a refusal to answer it. It's not meant to insult, humiliate or anything else-- and you don't even have to care about it one way or the other, but I can't help it if you do. When you do answer it, I'll change my position. It's nothing more than that, and it's certianly not meant to be so diabolical.

A separate branch is this "I'm not going to reward bad behavior" or "I am going to teach X lesson" stuff.

I am not trying to help you "Stop doing it" -- I only shine a light on it so others can see it and recognize tactics you may adopt (the "you" can be anybody -- not just you personally). You do such things to me as well, and I'll bet we both share a blindspot in terms of our "tactics". I consider a lot of this entire exchange to be talking past one another, and I think we both have the same crazy degree of "morbid curiosity" to see how far the other is willing to go (maybe we're both more alike than we care to admit).

And finally, I'm not trying to make it into an ouch contest-- I don't disagree we point out each others' faults-- I admitted that awhile back. But I am not about trying to "help you" out of it. It's not my place or my goal.

[mitchellmckain]

Oh come now, and you haven't been pointing out my faults even more?

But as I just said, I'm going to stop now. I had really hoped that you would acknowledge the "refusing to answer" thing was a cheap shot, and I got into a morbid curiosity mood to see how long you would go without admitting it. But I guess you aren't going to admit it, and I'm sure it's getting irritating to others, so I'm going to stop now.

(but seriously, seriously, you can't admit it's a cheap shot?, and that maybe you were wrong to have said it, especially to Moonwood? An answer not looking like what you want it to look like is NOT refusing to answer.)

Maybe the question is, cheap compared to what? If you compare it to the rest of KTR's comments, I don't see much difference, and that would explain why he doesn't see that particular comment as cheap either.

[ReasonToFollow]

I became a free thinker 1 month ago after joining a different forum.

I thought I'd drop by and let you guys know.

[Keep The Reason]

Well, really now? Assuming by "free thinker" you mean youve broken away from theism, i say to you: Congratulations! And a forum that made a convert in a few short months? That's very impressive.

I'd like to ask 2 questions. What was the name of this forum, and what was your handle on it?

[Moonwood the Hare]

My friends in the prison all ask unto me
How good, how good does it feel to be free?
And I answer them most mysteriously,
'Are birds free from the chains of the skyways?'

[ReasonToFollow]

Well, really now? Assuming by "free thinker" you mean youve broken away from theism, i say to you: Congratulations! And a forum that made a convert in a few short months? That's very impressive.

I'd like to ask 2 questions. What was the name of this forum, and what was your handle on it?

http://Www.atheistforums.com and my name used to be ReasonToFollow but I asked to change it to FallenToReason after my deconversion.

Sadly, the community was divided between those that thought I was still a theist and trolling about my deconversion and those that really believed me. The ones that believed me were ex-theists as well so they understood that it's a process. You don't just snap out of it overnight. This mis-understanding about my true beliefs now lead me to being banned under suspicion of being an undercover theist.

It might seem like a game to them, disproving theists and all, but I don't think they realise they're dealing with real people. My future has been destroyed by Phil, the guy that deconverted me. I told him I can't ever be with the girl I like anymore because she's a full on Christian. My band that I co-founded is explicitly a Christian-only band. Around 80% of my friends are all hardcore Christians. He believed none of my problems and still thought I was out to convert him. The one place where I could escape all the insanity that has become my life and they rejected me. So this is the real world huh?

[mitchellmckain]

http://Www.atheistforums.com and my name used to be ReasonToFollow but I asked to change it to FallenToReason after my deconversion.

Sadly, the community was divided between those that thought I was still a theist and trolling about my deconversion and those that really believed me. The ones that believed me were ex-theists as well so they understood that it's a process. You don't just snap out of it overnight. This mis-understanding about my true beliefs now lead me to being banned under suspicion of being an undercover theist.

It might seem like a game to them, disproving theists and all, but I don't think they realise they're dealing with real people. My future has been destroyed by Phil, the guy that deconverted me. I told him I can't ever be with the girl I like anymore because she's a full on Christian. My band that I co-founded is explicitly a Christian-only band. Around 80% of my friends are all hardcore Christians. He believed none of my problems and still thought I was out to convert him. The one place where I could escape all the insanity that has become my life and they rejected me. So this is the real world huh?

Yeah it is experiences with churches like that which has caused so many to abandon Christianity. Being an atheist does not mean that one is more rational, tolerant or a better person. These are problems with bad human habits and ones beliefs regarding objectively undecidable issues has nothing to do with it.

[VickiRW]

It might seem like a game to them, disproving theists and all, but I don't think they realise they're dealing with real people. My future has been destroyed by Phil, the guy that deconverted me. I told him I can't ever be with the girl I like anymore because she's a full on Christian. My band that I co-founded is explicitly a Christian-only band. Around 80% of my friends are all hardcore Christians. He believed none of my problems and still thought I was out to convert him. The one place where I could escape all the insanity that has become my life and they rejected me. So this is the real world huh?

Hi Reason,

I'm so sorry this is hard for you. Deconversion can be difficult. It is easy to say that your real friends will stick by you, but I don't think it is always that simple as they may feel threatened. Try to find a community that will accept you. I have no idea if there is a local atheist (or skeptics/ free-thinker/humanist - we have so many names!) group in your area, but that is always a good place to start. If you don't have anything like that, you could always start something. As you are transitioning, you may find a church environment more comfortable. I was talking they other day with an atheist who goes to a unitarian church. She said they are 50% atheist, but I don't know where that stat came from and I think she was just talking about the US. If you would feel more comfortable with something more Christian, most UCC churches are pretty ok with atheists. They will encourage you to reconvert, of course, but they are generally fine with "doubters" and aren't likely to push you away. With time, I think you will find that you don't need the church to have a community, but if you don't have a good atheist group you can plug into, that might be the easiest way to have friends as you transition.