Demonstration side topic

[gary_s]

I have a side topic to the Demonstration thread. I've posted a link to a fascinating article about a study of violinists who were "blinded" to the instrument they were playing and could not identify with any reliability the difference between a highly regarded Stradivarius and a modern quality instrument. This, along with other such studies, demonstrates the peculiar aspects of human perception and how we are unaware of what thinking is going on in our mind. There was a wine study done where some subjects were exposed to comments about the wine they were tasting before they tasted it and others only after they tasted it and then the subjects perception of the wine's quality was evaluated. What was found was that pre-tasting comments influenced the subjects report of wine quality more than post-tasting comments did. This suggests that we can be influenced to actually experience something in a certain way, not just be influenced to change our opinion. Another such study where white wine was dyed red revealed that people experienced the taste qualities of red wine. And there are non-scientific studies suggesting that musicians playing expensive instruments actually play better than when they play cheaper instruments. All of these studies suggest that we have a sort of internal loop of self-fulfilling prophecy going on. The better we expect something to be, the better our actions tend to make them.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... g-violins/

[cleve]

I have a side topic to the Demonstration thread. I've posted a link to a fascinating article about a study of violinists who were "blinded" to the instrument they were playing and could not identify with any reliability the difference between a highly regarded Stradivarius and a modern quality instrument. This, along with other such studies, demonstrates the peculiar aspects of human perception and how we are unaware of what thinking is going on in our mind. There was a wine study done where some subjects were exposed to comments about the wine they were tasting before they tasted it and others only after they tasted it and then the subjects perception of the wine's quality was evaluated. What was found was that pre-tasting comments influenced the subjects report of wine quality more than post-tasting comments did. This suggests that we can be influenced to actually experience something in a certain way, not just be influenced to change our opinion. Another such study where white wine was dyed red revealed that people experienced the taste qualities of red wine. And there are non-scientific studies suggesting that musicians playing expensive instruments actually play better than when they play cheaper instruments. All of these studies suggest that we have a sort of internal loop of self-fulfilling prophecy going on. The better we expect something to be, the better our actions tend to make them.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... g-violins/

Gary,
One thing I've learned from 17 years of barbering is that human beings show strong tendendencies toward being pre-conditioned. From the moment they walk in the door of the shop, until they leave, they almost convey an expectation for being precondioned by you. As soon as a customer enters the shop, a subliminal communication begins between him and the barber. If the customer opts to read the newspaper, he shows me that his priority is reading; so I leave him alone to pursue his preference. The most effective greetings a barber can give his customers tend to be "hypnotic" in nature; everyone becomes comfortable when the interactions flow smoothly and go unnoticed. Since the customer tends to assume that the barber remembers/already knows what haircut he wants, the barber is only allowed to ask the customer one question. (If more questions are asked, the customer gets the impression that the barber is incompetent at his trade.) While cutting a customer's hair, it appears that the barber is only involved in the activity of haircutting; in reality, though, he is also exercising a lot of sensitivity toward the customer by trying to sense/tune in on the moods and inclinations of his customers. Two major priorities for keeping a customer coming back are to help him be comfortable and satisfied while he is in your environment.
On the side: If a barber can acquire an ability to sense and respond to the varying customers and their resultant environments in his shop, what would the creator of life do?

[gary_s]

Well, that's all very fascinating, but I don't see how it relates to the topic.

[cleve]

Well, that's all very fascinating, but I don't see how it relates to the topic.

Gary,
Do you feel challenged when it comes to trying to relate to experiences that differ from what you are familiar or acquainted with?
In my own experiences, I have found there to be a sowing and reaping of relationships of attitudes that take place through the process of conditioning - similar to the "breaking in" of a leather baseball mitt. Conditioning others is not always wrong; on the same idea, we condition lots of things, too. There is nothing wrong with conditioning, as long as it helps to bring out good qualities and attitudes in human behavior.
An example of how a person's pre-conditioned attitudes could affect his response might show up when he samples a glass of white wine that has been had red food coloring added to it. If the person doesn't know this, his thinking can be manipulated into believing that the wine actually tastes like a red wine.
So it is possible to change the attitudes of others without their being aware of it. Just like the above example of the wine, people's attitudes can become conditioned from having an enjoyable and memorable experience because it was different from their original expectations.

[gary_s]

Can you please start a new thread with your topic, cleve?

[Dr Mundo]

I have a side topic to the Demonstration thread. I've posted a link to a fascinating article about a study of violinists who were "blinded" to the instrument they were playing and could not identify with any reliability the difference between a highly regarded Stradivarius and a modern quality instrument. This, along with other such studies, demonstrates the peculiar aspects of human perception and how we are unaware of what thinking is going on in our mind. There was a wine study done where some subjects were exposed to comments about the wine they were tasting before they tasted it and others only after they tasted it and then the subjects perception of the wine's quality was evaluated. What was found was that pre-tasting comments influenced the subjects report of wine quality more than post-tasting comments did. This suggests that we can be influenced to actually experience something in a certain way, not just be influenced to change our opinion. Another such study where white wine was dyed red revealed that people experienced the taste qualities of red wine. And there are non-scientific studies suggesting that musicians playing expensive instruments actually play better than when they play cheaper instruments. All of these studies suggest that we have a sort of internal loop of self-fulfilling prophecy going on. The better we expect something to be, the better our actions tend to make them.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... g-violins/

I hope that people of all worldviews can see why I put a limit as to what I will accept. That limit has to be grounded in demonstrable evidence based reasoning. Personal experience for the mundane is acceptable for me, but not things of unknown origin or explanation. We can be influenced or we can mis-perceive. Does this even sound like a controversial view? I hope it doesn't because it seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. If anyone disagrees could you please state why?

[Rian]

(to gary)

I think most people, at least here, would agree that it exists to a significant extent. Was there a paritcular aspect that you wanted to discuss?

[gary_s]

I just think it's a really strange and cool thing that most of us probably don't even think about. I wouldn't say I was aware of it before I read these articles. It's an example of how poor our perception of reality is. We can walk around convinced of something that is pretty much nonsense, and we do this on a regular basis. To me, knowing this simple little fact is both startling and comforting at the same time.

[Rian]

Yes, it's pretty cool - our minds and bodies are amazing!

And to riff off of your "It's an example of how poor our perception of reality is" - what if it's more like "it's an example of how limited our understanding of reality is" ... ? Just a thought ...

And I can see "startling", but how is it "comforting" to you?

Anyway, speaking of reality, where did my pastry blender get to? Grrr ... I'm trying to make up a big batch of egg salad, and pastry blenders work great for that ...

[gary_s]

Yes, it's pretty cool - our minds and bodies are amazing!

And to riff off of your "It's an example of how poor our perception of reality is" - what if it's more like "it's an example of how limited our understanding of reality is" ... ? Just a thought ...

I think both capture the same essence.

And I can see "startling", but how is it "comforting" to you?

Yes, I thought this might be confusing. I find it comforting for one specific reason, and I hope Mitch might appreciate this because we've discussed this topic from a different angle. Regardless of how much we work and study and learn, humans will likely never know everything and never have a complete picture (objective) of existence. We can only have a model, which is imperfect. This is quite easy to see when one is discussing difficult topics such as sub-atomic particles, but for all the regular guys out there, you can experience it too with your own body and mind. This is just a simple, ordinary example of how we cannot know all there is to know and I just find that an interesting and delightful fact.

Anyway, speaking of reality, where did my pastry blender get to? Grrr ... I'm trying to make up a big batch of egg salad, and pastry blenders work great for that ...

OK, what the heck is a pastry blender? Why would you need to blend pastry?

[Rian]

It's used for the coarse cutting of shortening into flour, and is quite handy.

here is a pic

[gary_s]

Looks kind of like a fancy potato masher. I had never heard of this device.

[Rian]

It's absolutely perfect for cutting shortening into flour coarsely. A potato masher would squish; a pastry blender cuts. One must not squish shortening or the end result gets tough.

I enjoy making pastries, so that's why I'm familiar with it. It's also great for coarsely chopping up eggs, too - a side benefit. And if you want it finer, just keep rotating and cutting.

Anyway .... the things we learn here!

[mitchellmckain]

It's absolutely perfect for cutting shortening into flour coarsely. A potato masher would squish; a pastry blender cuts. One must not squish shortening or the end result gets tough.

I enjoy making pastries, so that's why I'm familiar with it. It's also great for coarsely chopping up eggs, too - a side benefit. And if you want it finer, just keep rotating and cutting.

Anyway .... the things we learn here!

What kind of patries have you been making? The end of last year I tried my hand at pork pies and steak and kidney pudding.

[Dr Mundo]

It's absolutely perfect for cutting shortening into flour coarsely. A potato masher would squish; a pastry blender cuts. One must not squish shortening or the end result gets tough.

I enjoy making pastries, so that's why I'm familiar with it. It's also great for coarsely chopping up eggs, too - a side benefit. And if you want it finer, just keep rotating and cutting.

Anyway .... the things we learn here!

What kind of patries have you been making? The end of last year I tried my hand at pork pies and steak and kidney pudding.

I'm normally not much of a baker, But I baked a Mexican style sweet bread that I just learned the recipe for a few months ago. And I got to admit I liked making and eating it .
I recommend trying it out, recipe can be found Here. I would add some brown sugar to make it a little better tasting, if anyone does end up trying it out.