Current State Of The Forum

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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:16 pm

humanguy wrote:Ooh, "the fight"! You live in a nasty little world where all Christians are the enemy. Some enemy! You're delusional, Moe, delusional and obsessively long-winded, but go ahead and enjoy your fantasy world.


My fantasy world? Reality check, you brainless idiot:

You live in a country where evangelicals run Congress and are cutting off access for women's health because of their obsession with abortion based on their religious delusion.

You live in a country where rape is considered partially the fault of the victim, thanks to the same misogyny of those same Abrahamic religions.

You live in a country where the corporations you claim to hate realize the power of religious persuasion and have promoted it in order to cripple our government and the protections of our wealth in their favor, to our (yours and my) loss.

You live in a nation where evangelicals and right wing Christians are establishing long-term laws and institutions which will cripple other religious views and secular views.

You live in a world where first world nations which STILL have blasphemy laws, and jail, maim or kill (or all of the above) those who violate this non-crime.

You live in a world where terrorists cheerfully blow themselves up in order to gain some paradise they believe they are due.

You live in a world where Muslim fanatics by the many millions are actively seeking to begin a world-wide Armageddon, which will kill billions if they are at all successful.

Yet you believe there is no fight to be had to protect innocent people, try to end wars, promote critical thinking and education, respect science and technology as the tools they can be to create a safer, healthier life for people across the planet.

Whatever world you live in, it's the most ridiculous of fantasies, but more than that, your fantasy world allows you to sit around and do the very nothing you are most skilled to do. You still don't even understand my confrontation is not with "Christians" but with theists.

You are bereft of intellect. You are devoid of ethics. You are culpable and an addition to the PROBLEM of injustice, rather than an addition to a solution to it. You are vile, disgusting, and a simpering whiny little turd without an ounce of honesty within your rank, brittle and withered bones.

And you're also completely predictable. You demand broader evidence from me, and when I provide it, you call me "long winded" and you address NONE of the information I provided. That's why I said, "None of the evidence I provide will matter to you". You aren't interested in any truth or facts, you're just get off trying to be an obstruction. Rest assured, you failed. We don't need you.

You are simply a pathetic loser.

Now go tell Clare how much you love her again, you little creepy stalker.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:21 pm

ArchLich wrote:Don't you just love how you can start a topic, and others will hijack it and take it almost into another universe as far as being on topic goes?


Yup. It happens to every topic, sometimes sooner, sometimes later. You learn to live with it and to...

Have fun guys.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:25 pm

Patrick Star wrote:
Aaron wrote:Yes, first it is to assume that to be atheist is to also be in unity with all other atheists, which I can't imagine is the case. But additionally and even more importantly it is to assume that to be atheist also means you have a desire for cultural purity, that is a very big assumption.


That is absolutely a bad assumption. Atheists as a whole are far less likely to agree on topics than even Christians are. I've read enough atheist material to understand this. In fact, there are likely far more atheists in the world than are even counted. Many may see no point in openly resisting religion because once a person is in religion it's like being brainwashed. Any attempt to remove the religion from the person results in tighter clinging to religion. Sort of a non-Newtonian thing. Personally I'm happy to see religion being challenged because it has far too much influence on our politics and culture. I typically choose more subtle methods of questioning and raising doubts though.

Having said all that, I do find it most interesting that religion has such a vast number of versions and ideals (often drastically conflicting) even within one domain (such as Christianity). This has long spoken to me volumes about the likelihood that religion is a creation of man and a reflection of man's desires more than anything else.


Atheist tenets, a position of secular views that inherently dismiss supernatural influence, has many internecine factions and disagreements which is wholly in keeping with all man made institutions.

Religions, each of which insists it's own doctrines are the absolute truth handed down from a flawless, perfect, all knowing and supreme deity, has many internecine factions and disagreements which is wholly in keeping with all man made institutions.

Go figure.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby cleve » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:37 pm

humanguy wrote:Ooh, "the fight"! You live in a nasty little world where all Christians are the enemy.
No! not another Apostle Paul. :shock:
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Patrick Star » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:25 pm

I don't understand the divide between HG and KTR. Like I said, atheists tend to have very wide ranging opinions, but this outright hostility is rare and seems pointless. I don't understand why HG defends Christians so much unless he actually is one and is only posing here. And if he doesn't want to partake in atheist activism then there's no reason for KTR to goad him about it. What's the problem here?
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Tim-the-Hermit » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:44 pm

Patrick Star wrote:I don't understand the divide between HG and KTR. Like I said, atheists tend to have very wide ranging opinions, but this outright hostility is rare and seems pointless. I don't understand why HG defends Christians so much unless he actually is one and is only posing here. And if he doesn't want to partake in atheist activism then there's no reason for KTR to goad him about it. What's the problem here?


HG used to be horrible to Christians and is now trying to make things right by being horrible to KtR. It's like reverse substitutory atonement.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:23 pm

Patrick Star wrote:I don't understand the divide between HG and KTR. Like I said, atheists tend to have very wide ranging opinions, but this outright hostility is rare and seems pointless. I don't understand why HG defends Christians so much unless he actually is one and is only posing here. And if he doesn't want to partake in atheist activism then there's no reason for KTR to goad him about it. What's the problem here?


There's a few issues. My distaste for hg is has its earliest -- but not complete -- roots in his endless defensiveness of Christians; but it's not just his defensiveness, he often adopts a position of why do we even have the temerity to argue with Christians, why don't WE just leave THEM alone? As it happens, that's primarily what I do my every waking moment in my day to day routine; when I come here, to this forum, I confront them because that's what the forum is primarily about.

That hg is a form of quisling is primarily annoying because atheists like him help the worst of the worst theists to make their "we're of higher moral fiber than you are because we have gods" arguments. theists, and primarily Christians here because --look at the forum title -- are expert at being the forest that hides behind the trees. They LOVE an asshole like humanguy because they can point to him and say, "See? why are you so confrontational?? Even humanguy sees it and he's an atheist just like you!".

Well, in my political activism and here on this forum, it's my job to be confrontational with theists, primarily but not exclusively Christians, because they are the ones in power who author our laws and wreak injustice and havoc on people who are likewise as low on the power scale as atheists: women, gays, other non-Christian minorities, etc.

Humanguy is an asshole because he creates an umbrella for many (primarily the most right wing) theists to hide under in these debates, and it is those theists we need to confront most robustly. He makes the job of this social debate vastly harder; it's not just him-- there are lots of other humanguy-like assholes out there who do the same thing.

On a more personal note, I work pretty hard to be involved in the politics of this whole battle, because when you add humans + religion + technology like nuclear weapons and bio-weapons, you have a nice melting pot for extinction. I don't want to be extinct. I don't want other humans -- including an asshole like humanguy -- to be extinct either because despite my displeasure with him as a person, he still is a person and thus deserves to live in a world that grants him the liberty to be the asshole he is.

So when it really gets personal is when a do-nothing quisling atheist like humanguy calls me out for doing social and political work that tries to guide us away from these long-discardable beliefs. And by the way, he's got every right to be that asshole, but I in turn have every right to point out that... he's an asshole.

But here's where it really amplifies into outright hostility:

Never, ever do you see humanguy take Christians to task for fomenting society to what THEY think it should be-- no, he only reserves that criticism for atheists for having the utter gall to take issue with theocrats and trying to battle them. That's where he burns his calories -- criticizing and demeaning the SECULAR side of this social struggle (and it is a struggle as we can all tell) while remaining mute and deferential to the sectarian side.

It's tough enough to fight the tide of credulous believers and the millennium-old religious institutions which are woven into our life's fabric at an intimate level as it is, without non-believers standing between us, facing our way, and crying, "Won't someone please leave the poor theists alone, boo-hoo-hoo??" That guy is humanguy, and for that I say he can go fuck himself.

I never seek the guy out and have no problem when he falls silent for weeks or months at a time (in fact, the forum is quite a bit better when that happens). But then he always comes back, and it's always the same pattern, see above.

Side note to Tim-the-Hermit. I didn't know that about him -- I must have joined after he repented or if he's mentioned it, I may not have caught it. Either way, it's an interesting factoid about him. Well, he can do his penance elsewhere. I'm not his whipping boy, ans I'm not his rosary beads. So when he tries to do it-- and this should come as no surprise -- I'll tear him a new hole each and every time.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Clare » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:55 pm

Tim-the-Hermit wrote:
Patrick Star wrote:I don't understand why HG defends Christians so much unless he actually is one and is only posing here...


What is he defending us Christians on?
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby cleve » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:
Patrick Star wrote:I don't understand the divide between HG and KTR. Like I said, atheists tend to have very wide ranging opinions, but this outright hostility is rare and seems pointless. I don't understand why HG defends Christians so much unless he actually is one and is only posing here. And if he doesn't want to partake in atheist activism then there's no reason for KTR to goad him about it. What's the problem here?


There's a few issues. My distaste for hg is has its earliest -- but not complete -- roots in his endless defensiveness of Christians; but it's not just his defensiveness, he often adopts a position of why do we even have the temerity to argue with Christians, why don't WE just leave THEM alone? As it happens, that's primarily what I do my every waking moment in my day to day routine; when I come here, to this forum, I confront them because that's what the forum is primarily about.

That hg is a form of quisling is primarily annoying because atheists like him help the worst of the worst theists to make their "we're of higher moral fiber than you are because we have gods" arguments. theists, and primarily Christians here because --look at the forum title -- are expert at being the forest that hides behind the trees. They LOVE an asshole like humanguy because they can point to him and say, "See? why are you so confrontational?? Even humanguy sees it and he's an atheist just like you!".

Well, in my political activism and here on this forum, it's my job to be confrontational with theists, primarily but not exclusively Christians, because they are the ones in power who author our laws and wreak injustice and havoc on people who are likewise as low on the power scale as atheists: women, gays, other non-Christian minorities, etc.

Humanguy is an asshole because he creates an umbrella for many (primarily the most right wing) theists to hide under in these debates, and it is those theists we need to confront most robustly. He makes the job of this social debate vastly harder; it's not just him-- there are lots of other humanguy-like assholes out there who do the same thing.

On a more personal note, I work pretty hard to be involved in the politics of this whole battle, because when you add humans + religion + technology like nuclear weapons and bio-weapons, you have a nice melting pot for extinction. I don't want to be extinct. I don't want other humans -- including an asshole like humanguy -- to be extinct either because despite my displeasure with him as a person, he still is a person and thus deserves to live in a world that grants him the liberty to be the asshole he is.

So when it really gets personal is when a do-nothing quisling atheist like humanguy calls me out for doing social and political work that tries to guide us away from these long-discardable beliefs. And by the way, he's got every right to be that asshole, but I in turn have every right to point out that... he's an asshole.

But here's where it really amplifies into outright hostility:

Never, ever do you see humanguy take Christians to task for fomenting society to what THEY think it should be-- no, he only reserves that criticism for atheists for having the utter gall to take issue with theocrats and trying to battle them. That's where he burns his calories -- criticizing and demeaning the SECULAR side of this social struggle (and it is a struggle as we can all tell) while remaining mute and deferential to the sectarian side.

It's tough enough to fight the tide of credulous believers and the millennium-old religious institutions which are woven into our life's fabric at an intimate level as it is, without non-believers standing between us, facing our way, and crying, "Won't someone please leave the poor theists alone, boo-hoo-hoo??" That guy is humanguy, and for that I say he can go fuck himself.

I never seek the guy out and have no problem when he falls silent for weeks or months at a time (in fact, the forum is quite a bit better when that happens). But then he always comes back, and it's always the same pattern, see above.

Side note to Tim-the-Hermit. I didn't know that about him -- I must have joined after he repented or if he's mentioned it, I may not have caught it. Either way, it's an interesting factoid about him. Well, he can do his penance elsewhere. I'm not his whipping boy, ans I'm not his rosary beads. So when he tries to do it-- and this should come as no surprise -- I'll tear him a new hole each and every time.

So you're just mad at Humanguy for being human. :?:
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:09 pm

I'm not really "mad" at him. I just recognize he's a dishonest asshole and that he pretends to not take sides when he sides with theists on a consistent basis, which makes him lack integrity and so I call him out for it and expose it.

And it's perfectly legitimate to be mad at humans when they do shitty things. Is this at all controversial? I'm mad at Donald Trump for his idiotic obsession to negate the entire Obama legacy because in being that petty shit stain he is, he harms hundreds of thousands -- and in fact millions -- of totally innocent people who don't deserve to have their lives ruined by his empty narcissistic and fragile ego.

Not being angry at people who do things worthy of contempt is not some noble trait -- it's rank cowardice in the face of corruption and if someone has to question that, I would say that means their moral compass is a junk pile as well.

By the way, do you REALLY need to quote a huge post to say a single short sentence? You can of course-- it's just annoying.

Oops. There I go again. Being bothered by something a human did. Alack and alas.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Clare » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:14 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:I'm not really "mad" at him. I just recognize he's a dishonest asshole and that he pretends to not take sides when he sides with theists on a consistent basis, which makes him lack integrity and so I call him out for it and expose it.


Humanguy is fair. You're not. Humanguy is rational. You're not. Humanguy knows how to be respectful of others despite having different views. You don't. Humanguy isn't part of the tribalism that goes on here. You are - and every time you and certain other atheists accuse him of being a "quisling" and "Christian enabler" are just repeatedly proving that fact.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Patrick Star » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:00 pm

That was quite an enlightening response, KTR. Thanks for being frank and specific. I agree with many of your points and in general your basic position. I would like to hear HG's comments on why he's equally argumentative (I actually want to say hostile but maybe that's too strong; not trying to make enemies). There may be good reasons why he presents himself as he does. As I said, he sometime comes across as a Christian advocate, which seems kind of odd to me. I'd like to know why he does that and if it is because he's trying to make up for past transgressions, whether he feels this might be overcompensating a bit.

BTW, I'm not trying to change anyone here or psychoanalyze anyone; I'm just genuinely curious about this particular rift because I don't understand it and when I don't understand something I tend to ask a lot of questions.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Clare » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:04 pm

.
Last edited by Clare on Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby cleve » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:10 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:I'm not really "mad" at him. I just recognize he's a dishonest asshole and that he pretends to not take sides... when he sides with theists on a consistent basis, which makes him lack integrity and so I call him out for it and expose it.


What's wrong with Humanguy's claiming to be "human" rather than Christian or Atheist? What's so dishonest about that? And when did you become the referee for which "side" he seems to be on at any given point in time? From another perspective, have you ever considered the possibility that you might be bullying and pressuring him to manifest some of the very traits that you dislike?

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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Patrick Star » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:15 pm

BTW, part of why I ask these questions was because I saw that HG had responded on a thread where Aaron asked Moon a question. there were a few responses from atheists that essentially derided him for believing in something silly (which I think is absolutely fair by almost any forum standard). The post was on the open forum, not a PM or in the Christian section, though he did say he wanted Moon to answer the question. HG felt it was unfair for anyone else to even answer, but this seems quite strange since that's never been the format for this forum. People always comment on the open forum, no matter who speaks to whom. He seems to feel compelled to defend people (Christians at least). Maybe this is a general sense of fair play and social etiquette for everyone or maybe he's just concerned about Christians, not sure. Good manners are understandable but there has to be some allowance for some hard nosed debate.
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