Current State Of The Forum

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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby cleve » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:37 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:.

Let life be your teacher. Let life be our teacher. OK?


It is. It taught me not to ally with double agents. They gain your trust and then stab you in the back and leave you to bleed out in the snow. I prefer to simply expose them and leave them on the couch where they belong.

It seems like both of us have a lot in common when it comes to the emotions that we opt to prioritize. Even though we might disagree on the way in which the emotions manifest, the emotional emphasis in each situation seems to come from our common desire for justice and truth to prevail. .
So it sounds like it was not what hg did that bothered you, but rather the way in which hg went about acting upon the situation that was bothering him. It seemed like hg found the situation opportunistic to also express his dislike for the way atheists chose to mock others in order to release their own stress. As a result, the mockers seemed to have avoided taking responsibility to help those being mocked. The mockers' awareness of this activity seems to have become dulled as a result of overuse and abuse. What if members of the atheist system could really learn to grow up and became able to understand their own personal need to mock others? Choosing to mock others in turn carries a responsibility to help others. If such an acknowledgement were achieved, then wouldn't hg and many others be more likely to accept and show more interest in the perspectives of Atheism?
So how did this situation convey to you as being an issue of hg's loyalty to you? Personally, I choose to see hg action as a blessing rather than a curse.
Also, what was involved in this "atheist agreement" that you referred to?
Anyway, the way things are done is just as important as the work that gets accomplished. All of us can treat others in a more fair manner. We want to be able to support one another wherever and whenever we can.

Show respect ... or lose it
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby humanguy » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:55 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:I'd ally with him if he were in sync with my principles and goals, and I would confront him if he weren't.


You would confront someone if they're not in sync with your principle and goals? Who in perdition is supposed to conform to your principles? I don't have to be in sync with anyone's principles and goals, I am my own person, I can think for myself and I'm not now nor have I ever been a joiner. I know you don't understand that, that you have a real problem with people not being in sync with your principles and goal, but it's your problem, not mine. You can confront me all you feel that you must, but it won't change anything. It would be a pretty small and uninteresting kind of life if the only people I allowed in had to live in conformity with my principles and goals.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby ArchLich » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:10 pm

humanguy wrote:
Keep The Reason wrote:I'd ally with him if he were in sync with my principles and goals, and I would confront him if he weren't.


You would confront someone if they're not in sync with your principle and goals? Who in perdition is supposed to conform to your principles? I don't have to be in sync with anyone's principles and goals, I am my own person, I can think for myself and I'm not now nor have I ever been a joiner. I know you don't understand that, that you have a real problem with people not being in sync with your principles and goal, but it's your problem, not mine. You can confront me all you feel that you must, but it won't change anything. It would be a pretty small and uninteresting kind of life if the only people I allowed in had to live in conformity with my principles and goals.


You, either on purpose or not, completely took what he said the wrong way. Dude, societies all live on a basic set of agreeable principles. For example: It's wrong to murder people. So, the extremely vast majority of people believe murderers should be punished. Do I consider myself to be conforming to a set of principles by refraining from going on a murderous rampage? Of course not, because I'm not a psychopath. When a person presents a reasonable set of principles and goals, it is logical for that person to have the expectation that a reasonable person will be agreeable to them. If there's one thing KTR has always been in my years on this forum, it's reasonable. If you gave a legitimate argument against what he considers to be a reasonable principle, KTR would be the one person I'd expect would listen and respond with objectivity, fairness and reason. You, on the other hand, have been unreasonable more times than I care to remember, so what's your excuse? Or do you claim to have one?
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby humanguy » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:25 pm

ArchLich wrote:
humanguy wrote:
Keep The Reason wrote:I'd ally with him if he were in sync with my principles and goals, and I would confront him if he weren't.


You would confront someone if they're not in sync with your principle and goals? Who in perdition is supposed to conform to your principles? I don't have to be in sync with anyone's principles and goals, I am my own person, I can think for myself and I'm not now nor have I ever been a joiner. I know you don't understand that, that you have a real problem with people not being in sync with your principles and goal, but it's your problem, not mine. You can confront me all you feel that you must, but it won't change anything. It would be a pretty small and uninteresting kind of life if the only people I allowed in had to live in conformity with my principles and goals.


You, either on purpose or not, completely took what he said the wrong way. Dude, societies all live on a basic set of agreeable principles. For example: It's wrong to murder people. So, the extremely vast majority of people believe murderers should be punished. Do I consider myself to be conforming to a set of principles by refraining from going on a murderous rampage? Of course not, because I'm not a psychopath. When a person presents a reasonable set of principles and goals, it is logical for that person to have the expectation that a reasonable person will be agreeable to them. If there's one thing KTR has always been in my years on this forum, it's reasonable. If you gave a legitimate argument against what he considers to be a reasonable principle, KTR would be the one person I'd expect would listen and respond with objectivity, fairness and reason. You, on the other hand, have been unreasonable more times than I care to remember, so what's your excuse? Or do you claim to have one?


Are you in sync with Keep the Reason's principles and goals?
Most of us, just about all of us, have the capacity to be rock and rolled by a feeling of pure ecstatic raw joy. You do, don't you? We should respect each other for that.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Tim-the-Hermit » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:10 pm

humanguy wrote:I don't defend theists, I just don't have any problem with them; I know that people will think and believe as they will, whether or not I may like it. But as I've said here before, I don't like bullying, and KTR is one of the most self-righteous bullies I've seen on a discussion forum, self-righteous, close minded, sanctimonious and hypocritical when it comes to standards that he holds Christians to but that he doesn't think also apply to himself. When a Christian member expresses his belief in god, "Keep the Reason" becomes apoplectic that there's no proof to be seen of that god existing while time after time he allows himself to make claims that suit his own agenda without having any proof to back them up, which I consider to be hypocritical.


Says the guy who shrugs his shoulders at the Christian doctrine of hell - the device that viciously bullies disabled people, gay people, suicidal people, those who don't believe the right things. KtR need not apologise for challenging immoral impositions. That's responding to a bully.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Tim-the-Hermit » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:42 pm

cleve wrote:
Keep The Reason wrote:.

Let life be your teacher. Let life be our teacher. OK?


It is. It taught me not to ally with double agents. They gain your trust and then stab you in the back and leave you to bleed out in the snow. I prefer to simply expose them and leave them on the couch where they belong.

It seems like both of us have a lot in common when it comes to the emotions that we opt to prioritize. Even though we might disagree on the way in which the emotions manifest, the emotional emphasis in each situation seems to come from our common desire for justice and truth to prevail. .
So it sounds like it was not what hg did that bothered you, but rather the way in which hg went about acting upon the situation that was bothering him. It seemed like hg found the situation opportunistic to also express his dislike for the way atheists chose to mock others in order to release their own stress. As a result, the mockers seemed to have avoided taking responsibility to help those being mocked. The mockers' awareness of this activity seems to have become dulled as a result of overuse and abuse. What if members of the atheist system could really learn to grow up and became able to understand their own personal need to mock others? Choosing to mock others in turn carries a responsibility to help others. If such an acknowledgement were achieved, then wouldn't hg and many others be more likely to accept and show more interest in the perspectives of Atheism?
So how did this situation convey to you as being an issue of hg's loyalty to you? Personally, I choose to see hg action as a blessing rather than a curse.
Also, what was involved in this "atheist agreement" that you referred to?
Anyway, the way things are done is just as important as the work that gets accomplished. All of us can treat others in a more fair manner. We want to be able to support one another wherever and whenever we can.

Show respect ... or lose it


I agree with some of the sentiments you set out here, cleve. But it works both ways.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby humanguy » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:51 pm

Tim-the-Hermit wrote:
humanguy wrote:I don't defend theists, I just don't have any problem with them; I know that people will think and believe as they will, whether or not I may like it. But as I've said here before, I don't like bullying, and KTR is one of the most self-righteous bullies I've seen on a discussion forum, self-righteous, close minded, sanctimonious and hypocritical when it comes to standards that he holds Christians to but that he doesn't think also apply to himself. When a Christian member expresses his belief in god, "Keep the Reason" becomes apoplectic that there's no proof to be seen of that god existing while time after time he allows himself to make claims that suit his own agenda without having any proof to back them up, which I consider to be hypocritical.


Says the guy who shrugs his shoulders at the Christian doctrine of hell - the device that viciously bullies disabled people, gay people, suicidal people, those who don't believe the right things. KtR need not apologise for challenging immoral impositions. That's responding to a bully.


I'm not asking Keep the Reason to do anything. And I don't know what you mean by the claim that I shrug my shoulders at the Christian doctrine of hell. What would you like me to do about the Christian doctrine of hell? Tell me, Tim, what is the opposite of shrugging one's shoulders at the Christian doctrine of hell? Are you going around comforting every disabled, gay and suicidal person who doesn't believe the right things? What about you, do you believe the right things? Are you in sync with Keep the Reason's principles? Are you a true atheist?
Most of us, just about all of us, have the capacity to be rock and rolled by a feeling of pure ecstatic raw joy. You do, don't you? We should respect each other for that.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Keep The Reason » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:01 pm

humanguy wrote:You would confront someone if they're not in sync with your principle and goals? Who in perdition is supposed to conform to your principles?


You ignore the context, which is typical of you.

I'm obviuosly talking about in terms of our government, freedom, etc.

And yes, i would confront Nazis, KKK, rapists, and traitors when I came upon them; you know people not in sync with my principles and goals.

That this surprises you and you wouldn't confront people doing evil tells us everything we need to know about you.

But then, that doesn't surprise me about you at all.

Others have already pointed out how laughably absurd you are by arguing that we don't have to conform to some principles in order to function. It's just dumb on the face of it and collapses before you can even express it.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby humanguy » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:24 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:
humanguy wrote:You would confront someone if they're not in sync with your principle and goals? Who in perdition is supposed to conform to your principles?


You ignore the context, which is typical of you.

I'm obviuosly talking about in terms of our government, freedom, etc.

And yes, i would confront Nazis, KKK, rapists, and traitors when I came upon them; you know people not in sync with my principles and goals.

That this surprises you and you wouldn't confront people doing evil tells us everything we need to know about you.

But then, that doesn't surprise me about you at all.


I know what you're talking about. You said you'd "ally" with me if I shared your principles and goals, and that you'd confront me if I didn't. I take it that anyone who doesn't share those things are Nazis, members of the KKK, rapists and "traitors" (to the true atheism, perhaps?)

Where does it say that you have the authority to decide what true atheism means, and that you get to impose your standards on anyone who doesn't conform to your ideas?
Most of us, just about all of us, have the capacity to be rock and rolled by a feeling of pure ecstatic raw joy. You do, don't you? We should respect each other for that.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby marcuspnw » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:58 pm

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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby cleve » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:02 pm

cleve wrote:.

Let life be your teacher. Let life be our teacher. OK?

Keep The Reason wrote:.
It is. It taught me not to ally with double agents. They gain your trust and then stab you in the back and leave you to bleed out in the snow. I prefer to simply expose them and leave them on the couch where they belong.

It seems like both of us have a lot in common when it comes to the emotions that we opt to prioritize. Even though we might disagree on the way in which the emotions manifest, the emotional emphasis in each situation seems to come from our common desire for justice and truth to prevail. .
So it sounds like it was not what hg did that bothered you, but rather the way in which hg went about acting upon the situation that was bothering him. It seemed like hg found the situation opportunistic to also express his dislike for the way atheists chose to mock others in order to release their own stress. As a result, the mockers seemed to have avoided taking responsibility to help those being mocked. The mockers' awareness of this activity seems to have become dulled as a result of overuse and abuse. What if members of the atheist system could really learn to grow up and became able to understand their own personal need to mock others? Choosing to mock others in turn carries a responsibility to help others. If such an acknowledgement were achieved, then wouldn't hg and many others be more likely to accept and show more interest in the perspectives of Atheism?
So how did this situation convey to you as being an issue of hg's loyalty to you? Personally, I choose to see hg action as a blessing rather than a curse.
Also, what was involved in this "atheist agreement" that you referred to?
Anyway, the way things are done is just as important as the work that gets accomplished. All of us can treat others in a more fair manner. We want to be able to support one another wherever and whenever we can.

Show respect ... or lose it

Tim-the-Hermit wrote:I agree with some of the sentiments you set out here, cleve. But it works both ways.

Very happy that you feel free to express yourself here. Yes, you're right, it works both ways.
For an older person like myself, expressing sentiments doesn't have the same level of importance that it might for a younger person. At this point in life, it works more as a benefit to keep the gray matter activated. :D
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Keep The Reason » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:09 pm

humanguy wrote:I know what you're talking about. You said you'd "ally" with me if I shared your principles and goals, and that you'd confront me if I didn't. I take it that anyone who doesn't share those things are Nazis, members of the KKK, rapists and "traitors" (to the true atheism, perhaps?)

Where does it say that you have the authority to decide what true atheism means, and that you get to impose your standards on anyone who doesn't conform to your ideas?


Who said anything about atheism? You're conflating your failings.

One. As an atheist, you defend theists consistently by attacking atheists for daring to confront them in their beliefs, while you rarely or never confront theists for trying to force their beliefs (or defend their beliefs) here on this forum.

Now put that one aside for a moment.

Two. In this discussion right here, as a responsible member of a society I have an obligation to work towards a free, liberal democracy and to defend against the mistreatment of minorities from the larger majority if they are so mistreating them.

Basic decency gives me, and everyone else, that "authority". Generally speaking, the US constitution defines those rights through the application of law.

You are equally obligated to work tiwards those goals but you are a lazy loser who has chosen apathy rather than worry.

Fine. I don't care what you do. But when you dismiss, demean, or worse yet try to deflect people from also doing what I do, I get to tell you to go pound sand and I get to point out that you're an asshole.

And let's make another prediction. You will consistently misread, twist and try to subvert the very clear and obvious things I am saying. It's what you do.
Last edited by Keep The Reason on Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Clare » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:11 pm

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Last edited by Clare on Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Chapabel » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:51 pm

This thread is a good example of the state of the forum and why some Christians like myself don't post as much. There are three posters on the forum that are simply a pain in the butt to deal with. One is a loudmouth windbag who tries to bully everyone who does not kowtow to his beliefs. He berates, belittles and tries to intimidate anyone who has a different opinion than him. In real life he's probably a panty-laced wussy who wets his pants when someone confronts him. On the forum he tries to impress with painfully long posts that are so full of bovine fecal matter that if there is any validity to his position it's lost in the stench. I totally ignore him now because he has proven time and again that all he can offer is vitriol, hatefulness and ad hominem attacks.

The second poster is a cut and paste hack. He posts things that even other nonbelievers recognize as foolish. I consider him the court jester. He just posts topics, not for honest discussion, but to stir the pot. His "experts" that he refers to are not experts at all. They're just other hacks who post on blogs.

The third troll is a nasty little person who rarely offers anything but insults and profanity. He never contributes anything of value to a discussion. He just jumps in throws insults and scurries away like a cur dog.

I am more than willing to talk about beliefs and different view points but the three stooges hijack every discussion with bullying tactics, foolishness and meanness. I try not to soil myself on their filth anymore. Just my .02
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Re: Current State Of The Forum

Postby Keep The Reason » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:54 pm

Chapabel wrote: Just my .02


We've been overcharged.
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