Beowulf

[Emery]

So if you haven't seen the movie, and you don't like knowing too much about a film before watching it, you may not want to listen to this podcast yet. Beowulf is a very cool film, and you have to see it in 3D. What do you think about what Wonders and I say about the themes in the film?

[jori]

Hi there,

I think the two of you had a really good discussion on Christian heroism - something that I haven't seen described very clearly yet. I am pretty sure that such a thing exists, both in the Bible - for example David, Samson or maybe Paul - and in contemporary Christian live - for example Watchman Nee, Hudson Taylor, Corrie ten Boom or Loren Cunningham.

There is a lot to say about how the Christian subculture creates heroes and the corresponding problems (see for example the book "God Doesn't Need Heroes" by Magnus Malm, don't know if it has been translated into English yet), but I don't want to get into that here.

What I would like to mention is the difference between secular heroes and Christian heroes. I see it that way: secular heroes become that for acts of bravery, altruism, persistence, intelligence and the like, whereas Christian heroes are considered that for acts of obedience to God and/or His rules/law etc. Maybe that is a similar distinction to what you were talking about in the show.

The problem with that for me is that Christian heroism is rather boring and doesn't involve many parts of a persons personality. To become a Christian hero, I just have to do what God tells me to do (or maybe there is also chance involved in that if God doesn't tell me any heroic things to do, I might not be considered a Christian hero even if I obey 100% - and doing heroic things while disobeying God will probably not make me a hero in a Christian sense ), whereas to become a secular hero I have to use all the abilities I have, be it muscles, intelligence, creativity or whatnot.

So if even your Christian heroes have nothing else to do than to obey, there is really not much to strive for when you are a Christian. Just obey God and you'll lead the best life you can get. That's not a life I want to lead, because so many of my abilities and parts of my personality have nothing to do.

Anyway that's what came to my mind while listening to your show. It's also one reason why I am not a Christian anymore.

All the best,

Jochen

[darkumbra]

Aargh... while I'm tempted to post a heated rant against the notion that 'don't let them forget I was a Man' is somehow a statement of hopelessness... instead I'll just point to something I wrote many moons ago.

http://technobility.wordpress.com/2007/ ... limelight/

We're heroes BECAUSE we're Human, not in spite of it.

[wondersforoyarsa]

Aargh... while I'm tempted to post a heated rant against the notion that 'don't let them forget I was a Man' is somehow a statement of hopelessness... instead I'll just point to something I wrote many moons ago.

http://technobility.wordpress.com/2007/ ... limelight/

We're heroes BECAUSE we're Human, not in spite of it.

DU,

It's a statement of hopelessness given the view of "man" given in the movie. I myself believe man to be a glorious, heroic, being. I don't think the makers of the movie have the same view.

[flawedprefect]

I loved this adaptation of the film. I have yet to research how much of the actor's actual "acting" was captured (along with their likenesses).

Interesting points about "Hero" - shall look up that book "God doesn't need heroes" as it interests me, after reading Joseph Campbell's "Hero with a thousand faces".

As far as I've read, Beowulf is the oldest surviving narrative in old english (dating from 8th century). It is heralded as one of the most important texts in the English language, and a prime example of "The Hero's Journey". While every country and faith has its hero's tale, I think that Gilgamesh - the epic poem from Mesopotamia - is perhaps the oldest written verse, dating back to 2600BC. If anyone knows of a production of that story in production, let me know. It would be fascinating to watch.

If anyone is interested in learning about the similarities in icons, heroes and figures of religious significance (including Jesus Christ) I highly recommend the above quoted text. It treats them with utmost respect, and explains the importance of the hero's journey, and how we relate to it.

In terms of relating to Hero figures, I find that two opposing heroes spring up: the classical hero often possesses superhuman abilities or traits, which set them apart from humanity as a whole; the other (more recent type) is one of us who shows us the best we can be. It is often interesting to see which people wish to see depicted in film, literature and other texts: do we wish to be led by someone so great, we can never hope to be them, or by someone we may aspire to be someday?

Beowulf is definitely the classical hero - a cut above the rest - but makes for an entertaining movie.