Atheists losing interest?

[NH Baritone]

I just signed up for a new 2-year contract with my cell phone provider. Since AT&T has such crappy phone/data service here, I decided not to get an iPhone, at least until next time, when Verizon will carry them. However, if I had known I could use the iPhone to buy & read electronic books, I would definitely have reconsidered.

There is the iPod Touch, if you feel like carrying 2 devices with you.

Excellent point! (And because I've been so devoted to my slim, green 4-gen Nano, one I hadn't considered.)

The only thing holding me back is the size. My new LG hybrid phone is the size of an iPhone, so while carrying the Nano doesn't seem to add to my pocket clutter, carting around something 4 times its size might.

However, I also keep my calendar on a Palm T|X. (It still feels kind of strange walking around with $600 worth of electronic gear everywhere I go. And if I take my camera...) If I could use the iPod Touch as a PDA, it might seal the deal.

Sorry to hijack my own thread here.

[NH Baritone]

Returning to the topic at hand, I think participating in this forum may have contributed to a worsening of my stance toward Christians (!).

I just went back to read a few of earliest posts (from almost 2 years ago). I sounded more tolerant, presented more evidence, and targeted my comments more toward the argument than the person. Lately, I have sounded (and felt) far more dismissive.

Being here may have left me weary from dealing with insane superstition that people use to justify oppression of their fellow human beings. And living in a relatively non-religious region that values accurate science & health education (and a state that last week began issuing gay marriage licenses) makes me impatient for the remainder of the Jesus-saturated states to get their freaking acts together.

[whoosanightowl]

Returning to the topic at hand, I think participating in this forum may have contributed to a worsening of my stance toward Christians (!).

I just went back to read a few of earliest posts (from almost 2 years ago). I sounded more tolerant, presented more evidence, and targeted my comments more toward the argument than the person. Lately, I have sounded (and felt) far more dismissive.

Being here may have left me weary from dealing with insane superstition that people use to justify oppression of their fellow human beings. And living in a relatively non-religious region that values accurate science & health education (and a state that last week began issuing gay marriage licenses) makes me impatient for the remainder of the Jesus-saturated states to get their freaking acts together.

NHB,
First of all, congratulations on the recent victory in your state for gay marriage! Eventually I think and hope at least the majority will get there as well!
But I think referring to Theists as people who are holding onto "insane superstitions' used to 'justify oppression of fellow human beings" is a bit like them saying "gay people are coming out and demanding equal marital rights to justify offending those who find gay marriage morally objectionable".
I don't think theists are using their beliefs in order to justify oppressing anyone, just as I don't think gays are coming out and demanding equal rights in order to offend anyone.
It's easy to become cynical and hardened to opposing views after a while, but we really do need to try to look at things from the others POV and to give them the benefit of the doubt that their good intentions are just as sincere as ours, even if we wholly disagree.

[Brad]

Just checked in here while having lunch after looking at movies - I probably don't need to see "Black Dynamite," except maybe some youtube excerpts, but probably will get a kick out of "Men Who Stare at Goats," which I was kind of glad to see isn't a Bible story, but I digress...

Anyway, from my corner I've been gratified that some of the Christian folk in this forum, perhaps taking a cue from, or due to the presence of, Scott, are actually people who can carry on a reasonable and interesting conversation without being utterly unable to recognize blatant circularity or raving that all the non-Christians are going to HEEEEELLLLLLL!!!!
While I'm still trying to get a clear handle on exactly what it is that makes them self-identify as Christians per se, I've really enjoyed the back and forth with Pseudonym and several other folk, though my bluntness seems to make them occasionally testy.

And Jim, please keep posting - as noted above I'm far from the only person who really values your posts.

Query:
Because I'm on medical leave from work right now, I've been posting a lot, especially in the podcast threads, and no doubt everyone has noticed that my posts are usually too long. Also, I know I'm very blunt, which seems to freak some folks out.
So my question is, does anyone think my posts - their frequency, length, or directness - has driven any of the other atheists away?
I've wondered about that because I've been surprised and a bit disappointed that more atheists haven't chimed in to add to or express considerations about things I've posted about the podcasts.

Also, I suppose I could go over to a couple of other forums and groups I've been a part of and get some more atheists to look in here and post, but I haven't done so because somehow that didn't seem like fair dinkum, because if everybody did that, Christian and Atheist, the forum would get out of hand quickly.
However, if Ed Buckner should mention, say, in one of the American Atheist publications that he spoke on the podcast, I'll bet that will attract some new folk.

[Brad]

We sorely miss the likes of spongebob, Atheist37, darkumbra, OzAnt, and several other atheists to fully represent their closely related, but slightly differing, positions.

Today I read, or attempted to read, two threads about the basic beliefs of Rian and Wonders. I, too, was really impressed by the remarks of spongebob, darkumbra, and OzAnt, and I think I've seen some good ones by Atheist37, too.
What has become of those folk? Does anyone know? Do they post at all anymore?

On the Christian side, there are so many conflicting, contradictory, sometimes opposite points of view, it's impossible to discern what Christians actually believe - let alone why, based on what reasons or evidence, etc. - or even what makes one a Christian! ... I don't know how you can possibly sort out that mess. And, of course, EVERY Christian poster is convinced his/her interpretation of the Bible is either the only correct one, or at least is the very best one - even though they're all using the same Bible - and they don't see any problem with that!

Yes, the same two threads I just mentioned made me sigh heavily, too, Jim. It really makes me wonder if any increase in understanding is really possible in a setting like this. There is so much smoke and mirrors, and I have to say in some cases an apparent lack of adequate education and worldly knowledge coupled with certainty ( that, too, is denied), that it seems as though rather than sharing perspective and learning from each other we're more often like pool balls just bouncing off each other on a table and spinning back toward our fellow solids or stripes.
At the same time, for my part I am getting some new knowledge of the kinds of smoke and mirrors that are possible here, which I think may be of use in my future endeavors and writings.
And with regard to SS and Pseudo, if I can ever figure out whether there might be any substance to their views - so far quite nebulous - maybe there's something of value there, or at least something really different to take into account. What do you make of them?

And there also seems to be a recent tendency of some to (often sarcastically) demean and ridicule the posts, imagined intentions, and even personalities of those they disagree with - defending such tactics as legitimate by claiming that since they're not directly "calling them names", then they're not an ad hominem attacks.

This was part of Jim's paragraph mentioning those slippery fishy folk who all variously call themselves Christians, but I know I've probably been rather strident here, so if any non-Christian who reads this feels that I fit into Jim's description, I'd appreciate either a public or private reply.
In other forums I've often been the person calling for more civility. It's ironic to me that here I seem to have become the "angry atheist" representative.

Then there are also the constant infiltrations by SPAMmers and the likes of Carico and sridatta (formerly dattaswami), which basically go unnoticed by those few who have administrative powers to get rid of them.

If it's any consolation, that sri swami character has shown up in some other forums, too, and it seems always to catch everyone off guard and to take a little while to get shed of him. I get some weird bugs in my basement now and then, too.

[NH Baritone]

We sorely miss the likes of spongebob, Atheist37, darkumbra, OzAnt, and several other atheists to fully represent their closely related, but slightly differing, positions.

Today I read, or attempted to read, two threads about the basic beliefs of Rian and Wonders. I, too, was really impressed by the remarks of spongebob, darkumbra, and OzAnt, and I think I've seen some good ones by Atheist37, too.
What has become of those folk? Does anyone know? Do they post at all anymore?

I had some email correspondence with SpongeBob a few weeks back. He's just grown weary of the repeated failed logic and chronic poor listening skills shown by some of the more active Christians. I tend to agree with him. This used to be somewhat fun and at times enlightening, but lately it has grown tedious. I'm not resigning from the forum, but at the moment I have lost just about all interest in engaging with the Christians that hang hereabouts, at least if we're discussing their puny ideas about how the universe works.

It probably started before this, but when Wonders let it slip in a podcast that he had gone on a weekend-long retreat in order to reduce or eliminate his desire to masturbate, I could only think, "What a thoroughly neurotic thing to do! Is that the kind of thinking that I've been trying to engage with???" I began looking at the postings by the other Christians on the forum, and I found little in their writing to inspire much else besides pity. Quite frankly, I don't think they want my pity, and I don't blame them. So rather than drift into self-righteousness, I'm steering clear of most of the dialogue between the Christians & Atheists. When I check in, I find that I am not really losing out. I have not seen anything that I haven't already read dozens of times before, except sometimes from MitchMac. (But then, he is so slippery that he often tries to win an argument by spewing his opponent with his habitually misspelled bullshit.)

[Pseudonym]

I'm not resigning from the forum, but at the moment I have lost just about all interest in engaging with the Christians that hang hereabouts, at least if we're discussing their puny ideas about how the universe works.

Awwww... we love you too, NHB.

For the record, I also miss SpongeBob, OzAnt and the other active atheists who used to engage us so well.

[crazylegsmurphy]

http://www.achristianandanatheist.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1831

[mrpayne123]

I have lost interest in participating on the boards a while ago. It's partially the long reads but mostly from listening to some of the Christians on this board. I feel like more often than not we are doing more harm than good, at least for my goal of getting Christians to see their views are irrational. It's like debating a creationist in the public forum. You make it feel like their are 2 logical sides both with rationale behind them and you can pick either one and be fine. All they have is faith.

I wish they would just admit this and not write back with ambiguity or if only you had Jesus in your heart you would understand. I just don't respect the validity of their beliefs at all. I find some of them arrogant, childish, and irritating as well. Sometimes the atheist side can get like this but it's not like if you disagree with me you have an empty heart and are going to hell forever (even though most don't choose to say this, they must believe it). And then you hear my god is a loving god, that whole thing pisses me off.

It doesn't really get to me except for the ones that are writing like they have all the answers. I prefer my Christian friends who just never talk about it and/or don't believe they could rationalize if they tried.

Just the fact that most think their is a heaven and hell just boggles my mind. It is so Santa Clausish.

I can somewhat understand someone being a deist. But a Christian just makes me wonder how an adult, who knows all the info/arguments-like those on these boards, can still adhere to Christianity in whatever twisted variety they choose to. It just seems too obvious, but what gets to me is to see them try to rationalize their faith. I don't feel like Scott does this and I don't mind him for the most part.

Overall I feel like we are giving their views too much credibility in having a "debate" toe to toe with them. It's hard for me to see an adult try to rationalize, IMO, a childish belief. I just don't feel like the debate/conversation should be even-handed. They have faith which means they are believing in something that is probably not true. I would just like them say something like this. If they all said this ,though, the boards would probably be boring or done with.

[spongebob]

There is a tendency here in the South (and perhaps other places as well), for people to ask you which SEC team you cheer for upon first meeting you (and it better be an SEC team). Now, I find this off-putting. Of what real significance is this in the context of a business relationship or neighbor or PTO meeting? If you plan on becoming best friends, then sure, it's going to matter to some degree, but otherwise, who cares? Right? Well, lots of people do. They simply want to categorize you, to put you in a box. He's a Bama man; she's a Gator, he's a Rebel...that way they know what to say to you on Monday after your team looses. I see most people treating religion in much the same way, and I find this absurd. To me, religion, or spirituality, or metaphysics, should be a deeply personal thing and it should only be discussed once people are well acquainted and accustomed to one another. It should never be promoted or advertised or bashed in a public setting. To me, such things are vulgar.

I have a friend that I've known for over 20 years. It took me 8 to discuss religion with him openly. He's Catholic, btw, and neither of us try to force the other to change. I attend mass with him occasionally (god, is it boring) and he listens to me talk about atheism without judgment. This is how I wish it was all over.