tonyenglish7 wrote:Regarding the issue of the brain/mind discussion, I wanted to discuss a bit more.
1) The identity of the brain is different than the mind. Just because they are connected doesn't make them the same thing.
2) How much does a thought weigh, measure, or move? None, so it is different than the brain. You said the one eyed one horned flying purple people eater could be found in the brain. But this is simply not true. You may be able to destroy the ability or distort the ability of the person to think by poisoning a certain section of the brain with chemicals or electrodes but you cannot create the thought itself.
Tony, you seem to be missing my point. I didn't say the mind and the brain are the same thing, I said you can't have a mind without a brain. Asking how much does a thought weigh, measure or move cannot be answered as "None". We know there are numerous electro-chemical processes at work in the brain when someone has a thought. Just because we don't yet have an instrument or method to measure the precise attributes of a thought does not mean it has none. We can see brain activity and we know how energy hungry the brain is. If you have ever worked at a job where you have to do a lot of calculations and thinking, then you know how exhausted you can get just from thinking. Thinking is a natural process that happens within the brain. The brain is extremely complex and is constantly re-mapping itself, so a snapshot of your brain today will be different than your brain tomorrow.
tonyenglish7 wrote:3) The thought of the one eyed one horned flying purple people eater is a private thought. You cannot look into someone else's brain and find it in there. The mind is completely private. But the brain can be measured, investigated thoroughly by a third party. A person could be deaf but know all the scientific knowledge there is about sound, hearing, energies and all of that. But it is different to know that and to know what sound, sounds like.
4) A person/mind cannot be wrong about their own thoughts. Yet a researcher can be wrong about the brain when studying it. So, with the mind, the person has firsthand knowledge and is incorrigible. But a person can be wrong about the brain.
The mind is currently private, who knows someday this may not be the case, science may advance to the point to be able to project your thoughts so that others may view them, personally I hope it never gets that far.
The mind is wrong a lot of the time. Memories are known to be easily changed over time and people remember events wrong. Have you never heard the expression, "My mind is playing tricks on me"? The mind gets things wrong all the time, if a person is worried or scared they can imagine all sorts of things that are not actually happening.
tonyenglish7 wrote:5) Subjective states are not physical. Knowledge of things, places, ideas, emotions, stories are not material, yet are real.
6) Intentionality is not Physical. You plan, make up a story, have relationships with people. But physical things cannot have intentionality.
7) Personhood is self aware. You know you exist, even if all other things are an illusion.
Not having a complete understanding how the brain operates, what electro-chemical process or neuron is responsible for emotions, stories, or self awareness does not mean the mind is some magical thing that is separate from the physical brain and can exist without the brain. That is jumping to unfounded conclusions.
tonyenglish7 wrote:For these and other reasons, it is more rational to believe that minds exist, are not physical but immaterial and reflect the actual real category of a real state of reality.
Yes I agree that minds exist, however they cannot exist without their physical brains. The physical processes of the brain generates the mind. No brain, no mind period. Are you really going to argue that the mind can exist without the brain?