Tony that is called conscience. It is God's voice in your heart. Have you silenced Him yet?
Your reaction to scripture is interesting... All you do is more personal attacks, judging my heart, yet you have no ideas, no arguments, no appeal to scripture, no real point to make?
Your reaction to this is interesting and I would have thought that the reference to scripture is obvious because I have mentioned it before. But since you are having difficulties I will point it out again. It is Romans 2:15-24 showing that God speaks to everyone in their conscience and unfortunately it is a sad thing that so many legalistic religionists twist the word of God into something that hardens their heart, puts logs in their eyes and stuffs their ears so that seeing they cannot see and effectively silencing the voice of God within them so that hearing (or reading the Bible) they only hear the fairy tale that they want to believe in (again the references to the Bible here should be obvious to those who know it).
tonyenglish7 wrote:Your reaction to scripture is interesting... It is a good defense mechanism but without any forward progress.
I wonder what your position really is? Do you have one?
My reaction to scripture is right there in the defense I made of you to tirtlegrrl, but I guess you ignoring this shows your own quick draw of defense mechanisms. But your refusal to listen to what people say is why you make no forward progress in understanding them. This is why you have no idea what my position is or that I have one. All you have to do is ask any number of people who actually care and read what other people have to say and they will tell you that this is one thing that I make clear. Your difficulty is only that it does fit the categories of your canned rhetoric and that it requires you to actually listen to and learn something new.
tonyenglish7 wrote:We were discussing Hell, something Jesus talked about and Paul didn't. (since you seem to discount Paul to some extent).
Do you think hell is real?
Incorrect. Now you are confusing me with Scott in the typical way you streamline reality to fit your simple minded, one dimensional, black and white, us and them, legalistic picture of the world. I have made numerous comments on justice and heaven and hell in this very thread, which if you really had any interest in, you would have read.
I am not like Scott in regards to his almost exclusive emphasis on Jesus either. Yes it is the words of Jesus in the Bible that I connected with first -- when I was very young in fact. But I did not count myself as a Christian (and I actually called it "Pauline Christianity") until I understood the writings of the apostle Paul and if you read my oldest Christian apologetic writing linked to my relspace website entitled "What I see in Christianity" you will discover that I thought that the clarity of Paul's theology has formed the basis of a large consensus concerning what Christianity is about, however much it may not conform to the nasty ideas of your legalistic cult. But on the other hand, Paul was a man and Jesus is God, so taking Jesus' words as lens through which the rest of the Bible is understood, as Scott says he does, can hardly be very wrong.
There in that apologetic "What I see in Christianity" also and, in fact, in the majority of what I have written in this forum will find that I not only think that hell is very real but that it is the natural state of man in the afterlife. Just ask anyone, who has actually been paying attention, rather than saying "you fool" in their heart and dismissing everything that other people say. But there are certainly differences in our understandings of what hell is, to be sure. For you hell may be a place that God created to torture for eternity anyone who dares to question what Tony says is fact, but for me it is a place that people create and choose for themselves. Hell is the place that we find our heart's desire, and heaven is where we find God's desire for us. For those who do not understand the reality of human desires this hell may sound like a party, but those who know better would not think so. Christians reading and understanding the Bible should certainly have learned to mistrust their desires and seek the desire of God for them instead.