humanguy wrote:I'm trying to imagine how anything can be "selfless." My conclusion is that it's probably impossible.
Brad wrote:humanguy wrote:I'm trying to imagine how anything can be "selfless." My conclusion is that it's probably impossible.
By coincidence, I'm about half way through Twain's very thought-provoking What is Man at the moment. It's ALL about whether such a thing as selfless motivation is possible and also addresses, without using the terms (so far, anyway), free will and determinism.
I'd recommend it highly to you, humanguy, and to anyone else who likes thinking about these subjects.
And btw, it sounds like you and I and Emery and to a very large degree at least, Scott, and perhaps Mr. Clemens/Twain, are all largely in agreement on the existence of "selflessness."
marcuspnw wrote:Would unrequited love qualify as a selfless action by Scott and Emery per their mutual definition and only if the lover is both tormented and not a masochist? I wonder. If so, then many of us were quite selfless in our teens!
mitchellmckain wrote:marcuspnw wrote:Would unrequited love qualify as a selfless action by Scott and Emery per their mutual definition and only if the lover is both tormented and not a masochist? I wonder. If so, then many of us were quite selfless in our teens!
Perhaps the teens is a time in which some start to fall in love with the idea of love itself. But then there is a question about what idea of love they fall in love with and this contributes enormously to the compatability problems between people. But since the love I am talking about here is an idea, it is not restrained by practicalities. And love itself isn't restrained by rationality. Thus the idea of love that one can fall in love with, can be a self-less love -- however unreasonable some people might find that idea to be. I am not saying that this is always how people come to have self-less love, but I do think it works that way for some people.
Perhaps the role of these different ideas of love is what contributes to the enormous difficulties in understanding love rationally -- not because mind and reasons does not play a role but because its great diversity makes it difficult to nail down the concept.
Brad wrote:If I’m not mistaken, Johnson took a swipe at an essentially identical false dichotomy in his interview with Emery when he seemed to suggest that people have a choice between becoming atheists who have no moral foundation and inevitably become nihilistic hedonists or they can become believing Christians.
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
Let us, Christians/believers in Christ, love one another, for love is from God. [Let me emphasized to you what this means, so] whoever loves has been born of God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
mikedsjr wrote:A quick scan.....but i will read the whole thing later.....but I'm stunned that I agree for the most part with Mitch.
humanguy wrote:I want to see an example of a person who is being false to himself.
Is it really possible for a person to be anything but true to himself? If so then what would it require for a person to be "untrue" to himself?
GeoMan wrote:J I felt like I had done the right thing. BUT if I felt a little bit sick afterward, if I felt guilty for giving the poor guy some dinner, I probably wouldn't do it again. Would you? If doing right felt wrong, would you still do it?
GeoMan wrote:I think we do good because it makes us feel good--ultimately, a selfish motive.
GeoMan wrote: I think God designed us that way.
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