ChristianHeretic wrote:mitchellmckain wrote:His deity cannot be suppressed. He was always God and always will be...He did indeed set aside all power and knowledge that were outside those limitations
Ok, maybe I misstated your position. You don't believe Jesus lost or suppressed his "deity", just his prerogatives as deity. Is that correct? Hold on, never mind, in your view, God doesn't have to have power, authority or wisdom to be called God, so the discussion is really moot.
Correct except for one thing -- the use of the word "wisdom". There is a difference between wisdom and knowledge, and it goes back to the difference between love and power. Knowledge is really indistinguishable from power and wisdom is not found knowledge or power but in love.
The Bible says that God is love, and yet "love" is a human word that is often used for lot of things including some really twisted, sick and cruel things. Thus there are other human words that we can use to clarifiy what is meant when we say that God is love, such as goodness and wisdom. There is a kind of love in which goodness and wisdom is found and that is what we are talking about when we say that God is love.
ChristianHeretic wrote:mitchellmckain wrote:I do not worship power. I do not think that power = God.
UNCLE with the worshipping power bit! I'm not claiming that you or I or anyone else worships power, I'm claiming that the God that I worship happens to be powerful. So let's drop that straw man you're beating like a dead horse...I was simply pointing out the observation that an entity that has "made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you (Jer 32:17)" seems to me, and the author of Jeremiah, to have a significant amount of power. But I'm fine if it makes you feel better to change Jesus' prayer to "...Yours is the kingdom and the [love] and the glory forever. Amen."
The point of my comments is a simple, and practical one. Did Jesus, as He was performing acts here on earth, access His deity...err, power, wisdom and authority God doesn't have to have to call Himself God...to accomplish these acts. You've pseudo-answered that question above. You do no believe He exercised super-human talents to do anything we couldn't do. Except of course you "clarify" your position with:mitchellmckain wrote:All his actions were actons that He performed under His own power as God.
which basically makes your position as clear as mud...
The lack of clarity is yours not mine. You say that you do not worship power and yet you keep equating God with power and cannot believe in deity without power. This is why it is NOT a straw man and it keeps coming back because YOU keep bringing it back.
The Bible says that God IS love. It does NOT say that God is power. Now I do not take this to mean that the word "God" simply refers to love, or even suppose as Rob Bell seems to that love is all powerful. God is an infinite being who created the universe. But if you want to know why, then the answer is love. If you want to know what identifies God and distinguishes Him from other beings like "the god of this world", then the answer is love. If you want to know what defines Him - what is His defining characteristic, then the answer is LOVE not power. It is love not power that God values and will never leave behind. If you want to know what it is that without which God would cease to be God, then the answer love not power. THAT is the God that I worship. It is the God that I have ALWAYS worshipped. But it very much does seem to me that this is not the god that is worshipped by the majority of religions in the world, and that they do indeed worship power because their primary concern is what they can get out of it for themselves. It may be rare but there is a different kind of worship that focuses on giving oneself (rather than on what one is getting out of it) and this worships a being of love rather than a being of power.