Great New Testament teachings?

[Brad]

Thanks!
That's more along the lines of the sort of contribution I'm seeking, regardless, at this point, of whether we might agree with any individual interpretation of a specific passage.
And that passage from 1 Peter is one that I can't recall ever having read, or at least much considered...

Among other things, beyond the limits of my own recollection and in advance of more study on my own, I'm trying to get a sense of how much the NT might have in common with other sources of wise counsel for living this life, ancient or modern, from the Buddhist "noble eight-fold path" to the philosophy of, say, Julian Baggini. In order to make such a comparison, theology, insofar as possible, has to be separated out.

As I said at the top here, I thought a few of the more thoughtful folks here might be interested in looking at the text from this angle and perhaps discovering a few basic things upon which we might all (or most of us) agree.

[ChristianHeretic]

I can add a few passages that I like:
1 Thess 5:21

Test everything. Hold on to the good.

And this second does have religious connotations in the second part of the verse, but the first part's application is important to all of us I think:
Rom 12:2

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

I like this one too (although some may disagree):
2 Thess 3:10-12

10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”
11 We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat.

[ChristianHeretic]

We could actually expand out that last verse to include Paul's instruction to our modern churches or anyone else in the nonprofit realm:
2 Thess 3:6-10

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”

[Tim-the-Hermit]

Matthew 5:43-44 (King James Version)

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

I think this sort of approach is much needed today. We've been having riots and looting in the poor areas of London and other parts of the UK. Now people are clamouring with their pitchforks for vengeance and punishment that is way out of proportion and the culprits are being bashed over and over again. I thought that when faced with tragedy, Norway was far better with their dignity and humanity. Their way promotes healing and helps to stop cycles of violence and hatred.

[Brad]

Thank you also, CH and Tim.

In most, but perhaps not all, of the passages we've quoted, I suppose we all realize that to separate the theological elements from the "merely" ethical components is to take the passage out of its intended context.
Still, for those of us who are non-believers, we might agree that a means can still be useful to us as human beings, even if we consider the hoped-for ends (rapture, heaven, etc.) to be imaginary. For example, "Test everything. Hold to the good," separated from its theological surroundings, is a very nice summary of what many of us try to live by, isn't it? It's also a the most pithy way I can imagine to describe the scientific process. And it is also a central tenet of both the least superstitious forms of Buddhism and of Socratic style thinking, as well. And of course, it's exactly what I think should be done with the Bible altogether, but I digress...

And if I can be granted a slight additional diversion from the subject matter of the thread:
Tim, I completely agree with your assessment of much of the vengeance rhetoric and related political responses now spewing around the UK. Anger is certainly understandable, but I certainly hope some sort of reasoned and workable response will prevail there in the end. Your comparison to Norway seems really apt to me. Tonight I saw an interview of the Norwegian Foreign Minister on TV. He quoted in the interview a Norwegian teen's very wonderful remark. I'll make that sentence - my favorite by far in the interview - bold among the last of the Minister's comments here:

"What we have seen during these three weeks is that membership in youth organizations across the board has gone up sharply. We have seen that intentions to vote in the regional elections on the 12th of September has gone up sharply. So I'm happy to see that, because that is a democratic response to a highly undemocratic challenge, which is violence and terror. And, again, it's the best way we can show our back to the ideas and the actions of this man is to do precisely that.
So, you know, the youth is the hope and the way they respond to it. And they have said very clearly -- you know, this notion has gone around the world. If one man can hate that much, imagine what we can do together with our combined love. It's the sentence of a teenager, but I think it's a good message after the massacre that will inspire us."

[cleve]

Thank you also, CH and Tim.

In most, but perhaps not all, of the passages we've quoted, I suppose we all realize that to separate the theological elements from the "merely" ethical components is to take the passage out of its intended context.

Brad,
Right.

Still, for those of us who are non-believers, we might agree that a means can still be useful to us as human beings, even if we consider the hoped-for ends (rapture, heaven, etc.) to be imaginary. For example, "Test everything. Hold to the good," separated from its theological surroundings, is a very nice summary of what many of us try to live by, isn't it? It's also a the most pithy way I can imagine to describe the scientific process. And it is also a central tenet of both the least superstitious forms of Buddhism and of Socratic style thinking, as well. And of course, it's exactly what I think should be done with the Bible altogether, but I digress...

So are you saying that the Bible is like another religion? And you think/imply that, taken as a religion unto itself, the Bible won't go anywhere unless it contains more of a future dimension? If that's the case, what do you recommend that the Bible contain/do in order to fulfill this purpose? Also, how have you arrived at the conclusion that "heaven" is imaginary? If you think that the Bible has no future purpose for its believers, then would you conclude that the Bible was written for the sole purpose of fulfilling social needs?

[Brad]

Cleve,
I know I was more or less the first to get off on a tangent here but nevertheless I'm going to decline to answer your questions and ask please that you start a separate thread if you'd really to discuss those matters. For my part also, I have to say that I've really wearied of discussing those sorts of queries on this forum and elsewhere because they tend to lead simply to everyone retrenching into our own positions, whatever those may be - and that's when the discussion is civil and diplomatic. If you start a separate thread, I may add a comment or question depending on whether it seems like I might have something slightly different and useful to offer, but then again maybe not.

Here, I'd really like to focus in this thread on actual NT passages, as much as possible under the criteria I've outlined - that is, bits wherein the meaning is generally evident without a lot of interpretation and which are directly useful in this life.

Are there any NT passages that anyone can refer us to, for example, that promote what we think of these days as "family values," that is, regarding healthy relationships between parents and children and/or other relatives?
How about passages directly advocating honesty or gentleness?
What about a passage promoting gratitude as a general practice (in addition to the verses that suggest giving thanks to God)?
Or not?

I'm hoping we can get some more material here, then maybe we can look at our suggested passages more closely?

[cleve]

Cleve,
... Are there any NT passages that anyone can refer us to, for example, that promote what we think of these days as "family values," that is, regarding healthy relationships between parents and children and/or other relatives?
How about passages directly advocating honesty or gentleness?
What about a passage promoting gratitude as a general practice (in addition to the verses that suggest giving thanks to God)?
Or not?

I'm hoping we can get some more material here, then maybe we can look at our suggested passages more closely?

Brad,
In keeping with the criteria that you outlined above, I appreciate your expression of a strong desire to help others experience a happier life/lifestyle (religion alone never made my life very happy either). This segment of a post that you sent to me gives the impression that you have a strong foundational belief in God.
I also read a different post of yours yesterday that had a link on it that seemed to refer to a god that was quite different from the one emphasized in the Bible:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2629
In the segment that you sent to me, your focus seems to be oriented toward giving thanks to God. The other post conveys a very different emphasis and perspective towards god. Which god do you prefer to focus your energies toward? Is there a conflict of interest here?

[Brad]

Well, I guess I'll give up on this particular project. Thanks to those who participated in good faith - in the non-religious sense.

A couple of things appear evident to me from the results (or lack of same) in this thread and from my own life-long interaction with the New Testament.

First, there are several bits, rather scattered, in the Christian Bible that everyone, whether possessing Christian belief/identity or not, can use to good effect in our lives.

Second, there isn't enough in there, by a very long shot, to use as an effective guide to a fulfilling life unless one buys into the associated theology and begins to see life as a whole through a prism of belief. That's not necessarily a criticism, because as everyone knows, the basic purpose of the text is to foster Christian religious beliefs.

But I thought, and still think, that there was/is more universally useful substance there that we could all hang our hats on to some significant degree.
That just isn't going to come out here, I guess.

[mitchellmckain]

Funny how people confuse their forgone conclusions with evidence.

[Keep The Reason]

Funny how people confuse their forgone conclusions with evidence.

Yes, mitch. It's funny how you are a leading example of it. You should pepper your post with unbiased "LOLs", shouldn't you? You know, to drive the "I am Love and Tolerance for Points I Disagree With" message home.