Well, finally. Jesus has returned.

[Keep The Reason]

And he's an Aussie.

Allan John Miller -- Jesus

So here he is. Is he real, or a cult leader? And how do you know one way or the other? If he isn't Jesus-- why do you think not? What does he have to do to convince you?

Where's your faith?

[humanguy]

Well...I don't know about this. Let's remember that charlatans and nut-cases come in all sizes, shapes, nationalities and ideologies.

They do make rather a cute couple, Him and Mary:

http://www.divinetruth.com/

Our Jesus doppelgänger, he's not a very good writer, is he? And take a look at their teeth. I'd say that they're both smokers. And Jesus could use a shave. Other than that, it all looks kosher to me.

I am struck by the notion that Jesus and Mary endorse Lyndon LaRouche:

http://www.larouchepac.com/

As I say, all kosher.

Yes, yes, yes, it's all completely silly and stupid and rotten to the core and everyone knows it. And KTR, I like you, you're a sharp guy with a big brain, so why this? Surely you don't see this as reflecting upon our fellow-humans here who happen to be Christian, no more than the damned fool who gets upset about a nativity scene on the village green and makes a big stink about it is a reflection upon my fellow-humans here who happen to be atheist.

[Keep The Reason]

Well, why isn't it a valid question? How will Christians know Jesus when (sic) he returns? People sure didn't know him the first time around, did they? Why would they know him the second?

I don't say this guy specifically is someone who CH, MM, mike, etc would necessarily believe is the 2nd coming, but what is the standard for deciding that? And why not this guy? Do we know Jesus Round 1 had nice teeth (given the day and age, he probably did not). And Jesus Rounds 1 and 2 needed a shave. I think. Maybe Jesus Round 1 needed more baths too.

I think it's pretty valid to ask Christians how would they know Jesus Round 2, and how is it they know the present (or, let's say recent) rounds of Jesuses don't hold up to scrutiny. Maybe Jesus likes to come back every now and then to pulse check things for Pops.

[humanguy]

Yes, put that way I have to admit that the question is valid.

What say you, Scott?

[mikedsjr]

Well, why isn't it a valid question? How will Christians know Jesus when (sic) he returns? People sure didn't know him the first time around, did they? Why would they know him the second?

I don't say this guy specifically is someone who CH, MM, mike, etc would necessarily believe is the 2nd coming, but what is the standard for deciding that? And why not this guy? Do we know Jesus Round 1 had nice teeth (given the day and age, he probably did not). And Jesus Rounds 1 and 2 needed a shave. I think. Maybe Jesus Round 1 needed more baths too.

I think it's pretty valid to ask Christians how would they know Jesus Round 2, and how is it they know the present (or, let's say recent) rounds of Jesuses don't hold up to scrutiny. Maybe Jesus likes to come back every now and then to pulse check things for Pops.

The Bible says Matthew 24:36, "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. "

The other issue that clearly demonstrates that this is not the Christ is how Jesus is coming back. Revelations 19: 11-16

Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

Christ will not be coming back peacefully to make propitiation again, for Christ came in peace the first time, but ready for war.

[Keep The Reason]

The Bible says Matthew 24:36, "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. "

Yes, but once here, surely "the Son" would also know. I mean, at some point everyone knows, right?

The other issue that clearly demonstrates that this is not the Christ is how Jesus is coming back. Revelations 19: 11-16

Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

Christ will not be coming back peacefully to make propitiation again, for Christ came in peace the first time, but ready for war.

Well, this Aussie is already saying "nations will change soon". This may be the very first moments of his pulling things together. Remember, people thought they understood how the Redeemer would come the first time around-- and they didn't. Rather than as a King, he came back as a poor carpenter. So, it's not unprecedented that Jesus would come back in such a way as metaphorically as he did the first time, and you just aren't seeing or understanding these symbols. You know, just like everyone failed to see them the first time around.

Maybe you should go check this guy out more carefully. He may be here, now, and you're missing out.

You know, because nothing says "Christian" like war.

[humanguy]

Brad, is it impossible that Allan John Miller is actually who he claims to be? If so, why?

[JustJim]

Humanguy,

I think Mike explained that more than adequately. If he really WAS Jesus, he'd be sitting on a white horse and be called Faithful and True, and would judge in righteousness and make war. His eyes would be like a flame of fire, and there'd be a whole bunch of diadems on his head. Plus, he'd have a name written that only he knows, and he'd be wearing a robe dipped in blood and would be called The Word of God - not Allan John Miller. And if you looked behind him, you'd see the armies of heaven, all wearing pure white fine linen, also on white horses. And he'd have a sharp sword sticking out of his mouth, which he could use to strike down entire nations just before ruling them with an iron rod. Apparently, he'll also be making some wine out of dead bodies resulting from the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty (his father). And he'll be using yet another alias, written on his robe and on his thigh (he has a tattoo??): King of kings and Lord of lords.

Since Mr. Miller didn't appear like the Bible says Jesus will, he can't possibly be who he says he is. The Bible says it, and that settles it. Atheists just don't get it....



Jim

[humanguy]

Yes but now you're being cocky, Jim. I'd honestly like to see our Christian friends comment on this, because the question to me is this:

How will Christians know when Jesus Christ "comes back" or whatever it is he's supposed to do? The real, actual, bona fide bottled-in-bond Jesus Christ i mean.

[Rian]

For you, humanguy (coz I like you, and you're asking respectfully), here's a couple of quick thoughts because I'm already in the middle of two other threads ...

I'm not one that's really into end time stuff, because I think the present time is more important, but from what I know, it will be very unmistakable and spectacular, not some guy slowly "realizing" he's Jesus.

OK, I started to play your clip as I was typing, and I don't even get 2 minutes in until I see the first huge flaw - telling people that they were there with him at the crucifixion? I don't see any type of support whatever for that concept in the Bible - in fact, I see strong warnings against it.

Anyway, if he is Jesus (which I seriously, seriously doubt, after only a few minutes of watching), it will eventually become unmistakable. And I don't see any support for Jesus being into any type of "gotcha" game, either, where if people somehow miss him, they're doomed. As of right now, everything points to him being a hoax.

OK, now he's told more than one woman that they're Mary Magdalene. Problem upon problem.

[Rian]

ok, even more reincarnation, which is really off, and I don't see anything on his whiteboard that I've seen in the Bible ...

It keeps piling up, humanguy.

[Rian]

ok,now AJ telling some guy to stop letting spirits control him, and talking about some 22nd level of spirits or something like that. Again, totally different from what's in the Bible.

It just keeps piling up.

And again, I'm just not worried about missing out on Jesus' second coming, because the Bible says to just be ready by trying to live life right day-to-day, and that's what I'm doing.

[Rian]

ok, I've watched a few more minutes of some of his whiteboard teachings - they just don't match the Jesus in the Bible, humanguy. He's all about emotions and your "real you". I have not heard one word yet about, for example, helping the poor. It's all totally self-centered, feeling/emotion stuff - again, just doesn't jive with the Jesus of the Bible.

Sheesh, it just keeps getting worse. I don't need to hear more - it's a waste of time.

whoa - if you want to be one with God, there are emotions that need to be released?

I can't turn this guy off fast enough.

[Mr. Sluagh]

I think the pertinent question is less "Is AJ distinguishable from Jesus?" and more "Did Jesus have a better claim to being a god than does AJ?" At the very least, I've heard feelings of awe, the overwhelming sensation that Jesus' teachings "just seem right", and similar sentiments cited as evidence for Christianity in much the same way.

[citizenzen]

I'm not one that's really into end time stuff, because I think the present time is more important, but from what I know, it will be very unmistakable and spectacular, not some guy slowly "realizing" he's Jesus.

My first post here!

For the record, I'm a Buddhist (practicing for 30 years) and atheist (longer than that).

Rian, if you're not really into the end time stuff, is it a given that Jesus will return a second time? Is His return tied to the end times? Or are those times not necessarily tied to his second coming?

As for knowing whether it is Jesus ... we live in a very divided world, where cynicism is felt by many. I think if Jesus did come, it would take repeated public miracles to overcome our suspicions of fraud, lunacy or megalomania. But I don't think that would be the purpose of a second coming. I don't think Jesus would be interested in convincing the world. I think Jesus would be interested in finding the true believers ... and therefore more subtle signs would be more His style.