Aaron wrote:Yeah I hear what you're saying Gary. I'll be honest KTR's position worries me. It's either accept his opinion on the hot topic issues of our day or hit the road. It seems to me he tries to justify his ideas by making a case that certain groups or philosophies are being stepped on or something, like hes the victim of some horrible injustices.
I find the integrity of some posters here to be deeply questionable. The tactics are blatant and blatantly self-serving. That's fine-- it's a forum with maybe 10 active posters. Small potatoes. But integrity is still integrity. I know the follow-up: If I don't like it, leave. I may just do that but not because it's "accept my opinion" -- though you'll probably define it that way, it's really about the tactics used.
But then if I listen to the other sides ideas they often use the same arguments he is pushing. I don't know its all real hard to nail down exactly. I think humanguy was the one that brought up this 'us and them' idea, that if you demonize the other side its easier to ignore their concerns and make them the bad guys. Maybe it has something to do with personality types too.
I would say it has everything
to do with personality types. And character, honesty and as mentioned, integrity.
Politically speaking, there is always an "us and them" paradigm; the difference between a rational version of this and an irrational version is a matter of degree. There's nothing inherently wrong with "us and them" -- there are groups of people, like a woman's help group, that naturally precludes being populated by men, and vice versa. So I don't have any problem with "us" versus "them" -- but that doesn't equate to demonizing people. Neither "us" nor "them" are in any way superior or inferior in either direction, but they are different
. And differences are good and healthy, but there are realms in which they conflict. Yeah, I'm always going to consider those who would outlaw evolution being taught in science class as a "them", as opposed to those who champion valid science being taught in science class as the "us". I don't create them as any enemy, but they define it that way and the only appropriate response to to stand toe-to-toe with them.
Let me put it another way. I would have no problem
with people being theists if it didn't translate in dictating what I should or should not do in the course of my life. The "us" is simply looking for a neutral playing field. It's the "them" who have hurled down the gauntlet here, and one can only take so much of the crack across the face before one needs to stand up and say, "Enough." If you consider that demonizing people, so be it.
It almost seems like KTR is trying to round up troops to support his campaign against these supposed theistic injustices of the world, but maybe its not working very well because most of the posters on this forum are people who've had enough of being ignorant followers and are people who'd much rather do what they do because they've thought about it for themselves and have made up their own minds. But what do I know...
Not from this forum. And I'm not waving a flag for others so much as I am merely doing it on my own. I'm politically and socially active in these matters (as well as a number of others) but I have no expectations of anyone here doing the same.
I'm pretty sure China doesn't have much for theistic injustices oh and from what I've learned from my transfer student counter parts their value of human life is also a little lower than in the United States so maybe if a guy wanted to kill embryos for science he'd be more than welcome there (just some speculation) so perhaps that would be a nice place to live...
The above comment makes no sense. China certainly has its problems, we have our problems. My interest is in the problems religion causes, and bridging a way for people to leave it behind.
or maybe even North Korea, I've heard they don't even tolerate so much as a private prayer meeting amongst friends, you'd never have a better more receptive environment to spout your ideas on atheistic supiriorism... I don't know if either country allows butt bonking though... but hey then you'd have some social evolution work to keep you occupied.
North Korea is deeply religious-- they believe Kim Il Song's dead father still governs, and is a god. They believe Dear Leader Kim Il Song can do no wrong. They are steeped in religious belief, just not anything Abrahamic. And yes, like most religions, the necrocracy of NK doesn't tolerate competition very well.