mitchellmckain wrote:But I am not even angry. No I have not assumed that gary is angry or accused him of being angry. I asked him if he was angry and he said yes.
That's one of the few things you haven't accused me of. But yes, I am angry with your constant insults and accusations when you know essentially nothing about what you are talking about. You are assuming as much about me as you accuse me of assuming about Christians in general.
But if gary wants to confirm that the defence of tolerance is a good thing then I will endorse that whether he chooses to aim it at me or not, and I repeat assertion that tolerance does not logically include a tolerance of intolerance. So if this is what he is seeking to prove with his behavior, it will not work.
I am simply not interested in your fantasy war of intolerance, Mitch. That is your silliness. I prefer to take one comment or one post at a time and discuss the issues as they come. If I agree, I will say so. If I disagree, I will say it and usually explain why. What I don't do is start calling people liars and bigots just because I don't like their opinions. I typically wait until they start calling me a liar and a bigot and then the kid gloves are off.
gary_s wrote:Every biggot that has ever existed on this planet has there own list of personal experiences to back up their campaign of hatred. They ignorantly generalize to identify a whole group of people with those people.
That is correct.
I didn't do any of that. I didn't generalize, I stated specifically that my experience applies to those that I know and therefore clearly Yuri's statements have some truth to them. You ignored those comments. So, instead of discussing what I know to be true, you just label me as intolerant and a bigot. Well, that works both ways, bub. You are just as intolerant.
I most certainly do endorse the opposition to intolerant behavior no matter what excuses people use for it, and I will certainly oppose generalizing personal experiences with a whole group of people. Therefore no matter how nasty gary is to me, I will NEVER turn that into universal claims about how atheists think or what motivates people to be atheists. So bring on gary and I will continue to refuse indulging in that kind of irrationality. Would you like torture intruments to force me to agree with you that way?
Oh, yes, please continue to pretend that you are the victim here, Mitch. Please remind us who called who a liar. Let me remind you; it was you who called me a liar and Yuri as well, not to mention bigot and intolerant. You are the bully here Mitch. And no matter how nasty Mitch is to me here, I will NEVER turn that into universal claims about how Christians think or what motivates people to be Christians.
No gary, I am not. I only endorsed Rian's comments as a response to Yuri's. If she had said what she did otherwise then I would have objected. Furthermore, even though I endorsed what she said for the purpose she intended I also immediately explained that it was no more true of atheists in general than what Yuri said was true of theists in general.
Those comments have nothing to do with your intolerant behavior, Mitch. I will continue to state that much of what Yuri said is true and that is also my prerogative. I reject your claims that it is intolerant, but rather a careful observation on my part and based mostly on conversations with Christians that I know personally.
When you endorse Yuri's comments and deny Rian's right to object, you most certainly do affirm Yuri's generalization from personal experiences to universal statements about the motivation of everyone who believes in God. Furthermore you certainly did made it clear that you thought your personal experiences in the deep south justified such generalizations.
I did not "deny Rian's rights". I objected to her use of mockery; that's it. I did not delete her post or call her a liar. Am I not allowed to object to something that someone else posted? Is that your rule, Mitch? Sorry, I didn't see the memo. Everyone note that no one is to object to something that Mitch thinks is appropriate.
And again, I did not generalize; I stated specifics and even made the point of commenting that I know this doesn't apply to all Christians, as stupid as it seems because any intelligent person would know it couldn't possibly apply to such a large group. I even went into a lengthy explanation of how Christian culture differs greatly by region and country and that could play a part in what you experience versus mine. You are manufacturing words and shoving them into my mouth and I reject them as lies. I did not say the things you are accusing me of. I did not generalize. YOU chose to ignore my detailed explanations.
No I did not and do not label you as intolerant. I identify a certain way of thinking and behavior as intolerant. People are not absolutely classified as either tolerant or intolerant. People who are generally intolerant can display tolerant thinking and behavior, and people who are generally tolerant can display intolerant thinking and behavior. AND I don't claim to be immune. I think there certainly are areas where I probably do tend to be a little intolerant. I tend to be a little intolerant of things that contradict scientific orthodoxy, for example. I tend to be a little intolerant of certain types of religious thinking that I do not understand and don't see much value in, such as Calvinism and arguments from authority.
So you labeled my opinions as intolerant, then? Big difference. You did call me a liar and a bigot. And you are clearly not immune, as your current behavior demonstrates.
1. Imposing ones opinions on objectively undecidable issues on other people to judge them with regards to rationality, morality or sanity is intolerant.
Yes, you are very good at imposing your opinions on others, as you have been doing on this thread for days now. As in, continuing to insist that my opinions are intolerance with not discussion of them. You even stated that if I insisted on supporting Yuri's "BS" then you would then label mine as intolerant and bigoted.
2. Dictating the thinking and motives of other people who think differently than you do is typical of intolerant behavior.
I see, so labeling me as intolerant, bigoted, a liar, those are examples of dictating the thinking and motives of other people. YOu did a good job there.
3. Generalizing from personal experiences with a few people to make universal assertions about a whole group of people is the very essence of prejudice.
You certainly have done this by arguing that atheists reject god just because they want to sin without guilt. YOU said those very things. And if you would get your facts straight and stop putting words in my mouth you might be able to make a point. So far you are only fumbling over your own misconception of what I have said.
4. Getting angry at the defense of tolerance and the being infuriated at the identification of certain things as intolerant is also typical of intolerant behavior and a very strong indicator of intolerant attitudes.
I get angry when someone insults me and calls me a liar. Your favorite tactic, Mitch.
Tolerance is an ideal that has to be fought for, and it is abundantly clear that the whole world has a long way to go on that score.
I really don't think you any ideas what tolerance is, Mitch. You have your version, but so far as I see it, it looks nothing like what I know it to be. Your version is to lambaste any idea you disagree with. Insult, mock, deride, harass, lie...these are all the kinds of tactics you use, all in the hopes of silencing others whom you disagree with. I will not bow to you, Mitch.