Re: Sye Ten Bruggencate

by **Keep The Reason** » Thu May 24, 2012 11:02 am

I'd like to have you gents have this guy on the podcast at some time-- he's a pre-suppositionalist and might make a really good guest.

I don't think the athiests on this podcast: The Thinking Atheist podcast with Sye did a particularly good job against his position, and I think Emery & Scott could do much better (I'm tempted to come on as well if you'll have me).

Here's Sye's Website, though it's simplistic and doesn't get you far unless you answer the way he insists, so there's not much you can get from it.

by **JustJim** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:12 am

If you click all the necessary responses to get to the last question, which gives you two choices: "I believe God exists," or "I do not believe God exists," and click on the former, here's what comes up:

If you have reached this page without going through the 8 steps, please click on "The Proof" on the menu at the left of this page. For those who have gone through the proof to get here, it may have been a huge step to finally admit that God exists. While it may be a relief to finally make such an admission, it is just the first step, not the last. The Bible teaches that even demons believe in God - and tremble. (James 2 vs. 19) Since you affirm your belief in God, you should be better able to understand the answers to the questions below. I hope that God will use these questions and answers to guide you further on your journey.

If you click on the latter, here's what you get:

Denying the existence of God is not unbelief but an exercise in self-deception. You may know things, but you cannot account for anything you know. Arguing against God's existence would be on par with arguing against the existence of air, breathing it all the while. You use the universal, immaterial, unchanging laws of logic, mathematics, science, and absolute morality in order to come to rational decisions, but you cannot account for them. These laws are not the only way God has revealed himself to you, but they are sufficient to show the irrationality of your thinking, and expose your guilt for denying Him.

There is a reason that you deny the existence of God and it has nothing to do with proof. I can show this to you. Examine what your initial reaction was to the proof of God's existence offered on this website. Did you think that you could continue to deny God because you are not a scientist, or philosopher but 'Surely somewhere, sometime, a philosopher or scientist will come up with an explanation for universal, immaterial, unchanging laws apart from God?' Did you try to come up with an alternate explanation on your own? OR Did you even consider that the proof was valid?

Hoping that an alternate explanation for universal, immaterial, unchanging laws can someday be found apart from God, is a blind leap of faith, or wishful thinking. Isn't it interesting that this is exactly what professed unbelievers accuse Christians of?

Please examine the real reason why you are running from God. It is my prayer that God will open your eyes and change your heart so that you may be saved from your sin, embraced by His forgiving love, and come to know the peace which passes all understanding.

Running from God? LOL......

Jim

by **Brad** » Fri May 25, 2012 5:37 am

For anyone who might be interested, the Reasonable Doubts guys did two programs quite recently on "presuppositionalists" and on how to debate / argue with them. Episodes 97 & 98, I see while obtaining the link.

Meself, I haven't made time to listen to those episodes because debating people who don't even start with a pretense of valuing reason is not something that seems to me worth doing. It's difficult enough to discuss religion, using mutually agreeable terms and definitions, with "regular" believers, as the very word "religion" illustrates.

On the other hand, "presuppositionalists" are at least honest, if you can call it that, about not giving credence to any line of thinking or evidence that doesn't begin with, and utterly conform to, their preconceptions and beliefs.

by **Brad** » Fri May 25, 2012 7:49 am

Btw, as long as suggestions for future podcast discussions are in play, I'll throw in one, too.
I'd really like to hear Emery and Scott discuss their views of the difference(s), to the extent there may be some, between,

1) The "personal revelations" that are taught and practiced among Mormons (like those I mentioned and linked in the last page or two of the "mammal" thread (much can be learned about this with a wee bit of googling),
2) The messages from God that evangelicals such as the Vineyard church followers believe they receive, such as are described in the book I suggested in the last podcast thread, "When God Talks Back," and,
3) How Scott perceives or believes God's actions and influences occur in the world today, vis a vis individual believers, not least himself.

by **ScottBarger** » Fri May 25, 2012 7:30 pm

Thanks for the ideas Brad, maybe we can do that for our first "video" cast.

by **tirtlegrrl** » Fri May 25, 2012 7:55 pm

I like that idea too. Honestly presuppositionalists, though a fascinating species, make me want to chew off my own phalanges when I listen to them.

by **Keep The Reason** » Wed May 30, 2012 12:52 am

Never mind. I retract the suggestion.

Sye Ten Bruggencate and Eric Hovind: Pariahs
May 29, 2012 at 11:09 am PZ Myers

They’re doing it again: Ten Bruggencate and Hovind are selling content from atheist interviews, cutting out the parts where they agree to not use it for profit.

The only appropriate response at this point, I think, is to recognize them as frauds and liars, and never participate in anything with them. They call you? Hang up. They stick a microphone in your face at an event? Turn your back on them. Reject them wholesale, and treat them as the dishonest parasites they are.

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